Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. A phone that grows with your child.

Meet the Other Phone.
A phone that grows with your child.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
Primary education

Join our Primary Education forum to discuss starting school and helping your child get the most out of it.

Original poster

Religion in 'non religious' primary school

35 replies

beachdays27 · 08/10/2023 23:22

What's the deal with religion in primary schools?

We are choosing a primary school currently, and had been prioritising 'non religious' community schools (rather than c of e). We are not religious and I feel it would be confusing for a young child to be told about God as fact in school.

I understand there is a requirement for collective worship in all schools, but I've just seen that the school we are considering has the local priest into assemblies, talks about the bible, there are prayers, religious songs etc.

Is this typical in a community school?!

OP posts:
Talipesmum · 08/10/2023 23:27

It really depends on the head teacher. It’s not unusual. Prayers and religious songs are likely to be expected everywhere. It’s the most religious place your kids will be outside of church. (Have a read around on here - there are loads of threads from similarly baffled reception age parents figuring this out and loads of people saying “just pick another school then” as if people realistically have much choice!).
FWIW mine were at a non c of e infant school and a c of e junior school, both similarly quite religious with people from the local church and “fun bible stuff” in assemblies. We’re atheists. We were polite about the school stuff and said “some people like aunty and grandpa y believe this, me and dad don’t, you can make up your own minds and it’s ok to change your mind”. Neither child were fussed by it.

Original poster
beachdays27 · 08/10/2023 23:31

Ok thanks - it's making me think we shouldn't discount the religious schools if they're all religious anyway, I really had no idea!

OP posts:
Talipesmum · 08/10/2023 23:52

Yes, I’d say there’s a very blurry line. On the whole I think c of e schools are likely to be more religious than non c of e ones, but there’ll be a lot of overlap. Definitely sensible to visit all the ones you might be interested in regardless. And bear in mind they can change character with a new head as well. They do all teach about a range of religions in RE etc.

CowboysAndCowgirls · 08/10/2023 23:56

My kids went to a non religious primary school which went quite religious for a few years under a new headteacher that came in. It was still nothing in comparison to what my friends kids had at faith schools they attended.

Personally I wouldn't send my child to a faith school.

PTSDBarbiegirl · 09/10/2023 00:02

In Scotland state schools are non denominational in the main with some Catholic schools and a few independents. Religious education focuses on education about the main world religions, moral education, fairness, tolerance etc. Religious Instruction is not part of the curriculum and religious leaders may ocassionaly be invited to talk about their traditions but not in a 'We think this or that'.......

JaneKatSuttonGoals · 09/10/2023 00:03

Dd2 learns about all religions & religious festivals.
They do Harvest Festival & Christmas at local church down the road & I think one year has a trip to a Gurdwara nearby, but no hymns or prayers afaik.
God is very much a Chrustians believe xyz, Muslims believe abc

Terfosaurus · 09/10/2023 00:07

DCs CofE primary school didn't teach any religion as fact.

They did have 'clergy' assembly, although I can't remember how often and daily prayers. They did Easter/ harvest/Christmas assemblies.

They also made Eid cards for their Muslim classmates, visited the local Gurdwara and learnt about other major religions/ were told belief is a choice.

Justchattingaboutthings · 09/10/2023 00:45

All schools are expected to have daily collective worship "of a broadly Christian character" (except for the small number of non-christian faith schools)

Some schools interpret this differently to others.

PurBal · 09/10/2023 06:13

I used to take assemblies in both the local CofE and secular schools on behalf of the local church. There was a stark difference in how the assembly was presented. Eg in the CofE we’d say “as Christians we believe” and “let us pray together” in the secular school it would be “some people believe” and “we’re going to pray, you can join us if you like but if not please take a moment of silence to reflect”. This church did weekly assemblies in the CofE and twice a term in the secular. The CofE would do Bible stories assemblies and the secular would be more factual eg the layout of the church, the meaning of the candles on the Advent Wreath. All the schools (5 in total, secular and CofE) also had input from other religions. Some regularly and some as part of a faith week. During one of the faith weeks (I think it was Sikh) the children did meditation and it changed one boys approach to stress situations in a big way!

The only real different is SIAMS which is like OFSTED for the faith element of CofE schools. You can read their reports and it will give you an idea as to how often the local priest goes in. I worked for a different church with faith school and they only went in once a term! Very few are rated “excellent” so as long as yours is rated below that there will be less faith element. SIAMS, unlike a secular school that doesn’t have it, is a good thing in many ways because it sets a standard about how religion should be taught in CofE schools.

Original poster
beachdays27 · 09/10/2023 08:28

@PurBal this is incredibly helpful, thank you so much! There must be some variation as I am aware they were acting out bible stories in assembly in the non-faith school, but your reply really helps to provide context and has given me ideas for things to ask when I look around schools.

OP posts:
ShutTheDoorBabe · 09/10/2023 08:54

Yes it is because C of E is the main religion in Britain, the children visit and learn about a range of other religions and their special buildings, there is a requirement for schools to go out into the local community and invite the community into the school and this is a cheap, quick and easy way to do that. For the most part, from my own experiences as a supply teacher, I think most RE is taught from an angle of, "This is what some people believe," rather than as a fact.

BCCoach · 09/10/2023 09:03

Our village infants is a community school but the junior school is CofE (there’s no school ‘choice’ in rural areas). In reality both were equally religious in terms of visits from the vicar, hymns, thanksgiving services in the village church etc.

The secondary school they all the surrounding villages feed into is supposedly non-religious but had RE as a compulsory GCSE up until last year, luckily the new head has ditched that idea.

I’m convinced that the huge amounts of compulsory religion that British children are subjected too during their schooling is what leads to the U.K. being one of the least observant societies in the world - we were all thoroughly inoculated against it as children.

Dizzybelle · 09/10/2023 09:04

I find it shocking that in this day and age there are really no primary schools that are completely religious free. There should be a choice, but there isn’t. It’s a good thing to learn about different religions, but for it to be taught as a fact, I find this very inappropriate, especially given that our taxes pay for these schools. It’s 2023, we need to start moving forwards.

BCCoach · 09/10/2023 09:04

ShutTheDoorBabe · 09/10/2023 08:54

Yes it is because C of E is the main religion in Britain, the children visit and learn about a range of other religions and their special buildings, there is a requirement for schools to go out into the local community and invite the community into the school and this is a cheap, quick and easy way to do that. For the most part, from my own experiences as a supply teacher, I think most RE is taught from an angle of, "This is what some people believe," rather than as a fact.

CofE is only the state religion of England, not of the U.K. The clue is in the name.

Reugny · 09/10/2023 09:12

Where are you in the country?

I'm in London where for historic reasons there some parts have lots of CofE schools. So the schools now choose pupils on distance from the schools not their alleged faith. This means the majority of the pupils at the school, who have religious parents, are of the Muslim faith.

In fact nearly all the children who went to DD's nursery are at a CofE school.

Anyway from working out what assemblies DD has had, she has had less religion shoved down her throat than I had a supposedly non-Christian school.

Reugny · 09/10/2023 09:17

Dizzybelle · 09/10/2023 09:04

I find it shocking that in this day and age there are really no primary schools that are completely religious free. There should be a choice, but there isn’t. It’s a good thing to learn about different religions, but for it to be taught as a fact, I find this very inappropriate, especially given that our taxes pay for these schools. It’s 2023, we need to start moving forwards.

It isn't taught as fact.

If the head is adamant that all child must have a faith, due to the fall in birth rate where we are the school doesn't stay open.

crumblingschools · 09/10/2023 09:28

CofE schools are not usually faith schools but inclusive schools, so admission criteria will not include a faith element, unlike say a Catholic school which may state you have to be a practising Catholic to attend.

They will include religious element in their teaching and as other posters have mentioned they will have a SIAMS inspection. But they will also recognise that they may be the only school in the area so will cater for children of all faiths or no faith.

When looking at Primary schools the main thing to consider is if they are oversubscribed and where you live in relation to them.

BCCoach · 09/10/2023 09:37

@crumblingschools this is incorrect. CofE Voluntary Aided schools get to set their own entry criteria and will almost always have faith admission criteria. It’s only Voluntary Controlled schools which aren’t permitted to apply faith criteria.

Our junior school is VA so they apply faith criteria despite the feeder infants being a community school. Luckily it’s not oversubscribed but if it were we would have the strange situation of the school being able to turn away local children from the only school for miles around simply because they were of the wrong religion.

Karatema · 09/10/2023 10:40

Talipesmum · 08/10/2023 23:27

It really depends on the head teacher. It’s not unusual. Prayers and religious songs are likely to be expected everywhere. It’s the most religious place your kids will be outside of church. (Have a read around on here - there are loads of threads from similarly baffled reception age parents figuring this out and loads of people saying “just pick another school then” as if people realistically have much choice!).
FWIW mine were at a non c of e infant school and a c of e junior school, both similarly quite religious with people from the local church and “fun bible stuff” in assemblies. We’re atheists. We were polite about the school stuff and said “some people like aunty and grandpa y believe this, me and dad don’t, you can make up your own minds and it’s ok to change your mind”. Neither child were fussed by it.

This.

I believe, my DH doesn't. My DC follow this too; one believes, the other doesn't.

PyramusandThisbe · 09/10/2023 11:28

ShutTheDoorBabe · 09/10/2023 08:54

Yes it is because C of E is the main religion in Britain, the children visit and learn about a range of other religions and their special buildings, there is a requirement for schools to go out into the local community and invite the community into the school and this is a cheap, quick and easy way to do that. For the most part, from my own experiences as a supply teacher, I think most RE is taught from an angle of, "This is what some people believe," rather than as a fact.

I think it does vary, though -- because I was prepared for a broadly C of E ethos at the village primary DS went to for five years, which, because it was not far outside the suburbs of a hugely ethnically and religiously diverse city, had lots of Muslim, Sikh and Hindu children, but I was completely taken aback at how dogmatic and creationist the evangelical vicar was. He was in the school a lot and teaching the Bible as literally true (which, in fairness to my devoutly and problematically Catholic upbringing, I was never asked to accept). It's a bit disconcerting when your seven year old can see the issue with 'The Bible is beautiful because it is true' and a 35 year old man with two degrees can't.

He's now at a secular school in another country where they learn about world religions, and parents have the option of using classrooms in the school building after school hours if they want to organise some form of faith instruction, but it's not under the school's remit.

Concernedfriend2023 · 09/10/2023 11:54

My son goes to a non religious state infant school and we are atheists. There have been a fair few religion based activities, I'm guessing linked to the RE curriculam. The only thing that annoyed me, was I found out one of the parents, who is the pastor of a very orthodox church, came into talk to the children about his church. I didn't like not being told about that in advance and would have opted him out, given the option. Things like having a school trip to the local cathedral didn't bother me. My 6yo is very much still in the camp of 'God doesn't exist' and I don't think anything would change that.

hadaye · 09/10/2023 13:04

Reugny · 09/10/2023 09:17

It isn't taught as fact.

If the head is adamant that all child must have a faith, due to the fall in birth rate where we are the school doesn't stay open.

Edited
Show quote history

It was at my school.

jannier · 09/10/2023 14:05

Think it depends where you live maybe....in my area it's very multi racial with more than 60% Muslim (pre Brexit a lot more Catholic ) there are no prayers in school.

ShutTheDoorBabe · 09/10/2023 14:15

BCCoach · 09/10/2023 09:04

CofE is only the state religion of England, not of the U.K. The clue is in the name.

Show quote history

I apologise for my ignorance.

Reugny · 10/10/2023 19:07

@BCCoach My DD currently goes to a Voluntary Aided CofE primary school and they don't have faith based admission criteria. They do ask what faith you are but don't give a damn if you aren't Christian.

There was one school in the wider area that did apply faith based criteria and it has closed down due to fall in numbers.

I am aware years prior to having my DD various vicars and clergy around London, so in different Diocese, weren't happy with the fact that children who lived right next door to the school and normally in social housing couldn't get into their nearest school.