Student teacher needing help!

[Ontheroad22]

Hi all
I have just started my full time teaching placement alongside my degree. I am based in year 2 and loving it, the students all seem to like me and I feel quite confident. I have some clingy students who won't leave me alone too.

I would like to get stuck in straight away so I am now leading one small pre-planned session a day whilst the main teacher sits in the office at the back of the class and watches. She is there if I need her. To the students though, it just looks like I'm alone. She has stepped in before when things went a bit crazy during music and everyone got carried away. For my first two weeks, I just did small group work and 1on1 reading.

Once she 'leaves,' the class seems to descend into chaos. About 70% of the class are genuinely working and trying. Some sit quietly and work, others are needy and asking lots of questions and coming up to me but you can see they're genuinely interested in working. The rest are just not doing the work at all, either sat doing nothing, fiddling with something or messing around.

I'm worried I'm being too nice. When I'm up teaching, some kids just get up to ask or tell me things that are totally irrelevant to what we are learning. Have I been too nice so they think this is ok and just see me as a friend so want to share things with me? I also struggle to grab the attention of the whole class without shouting or using our attention grabber where I clap a rhythm and the class repeats it. I don't want to have to do this constantly and also don't want to become a shouty, angry teacher.

For example, we were doing handwriting today and I was demonstrating the cursive 'a' on the board for students to practice after me. I had to do this about 4 times as students kept saying they didn't know what to do or hadn't watched me do it. So I had to keep going back to the board to repeat myself. Essentially, students aren't listening so I'm constantly having to repeat myself. When I go to check on their work around the room, some of them say they don't know what they're even meant to be doing, even though we did a group activity and it was all explained. This takes my time away from other students who genuinely just need a hand.

I am also feeling that a particular group of boys are over-asking me for help as a joke. Is this something they do? They all seem to ask it over and over again and giggle to eachother when I come over.

I fear I've been too nice in my first couples weeks of teaching and some of them are not taking me seriously. Can I please have some tips for asserting myself and being a teacher that students want to listen to?

Hey! I teach secondary, but I would suggest speaking to the teacher first and foremost, as this all strikes me as things she should be offering you feedback on. Are you getting feedback from her?

It is utterly demoralising but completely normal for kids to play up to an unfamiliar teacher. Do you have clear behaviour management routines? Don't feel afraid to speak to this group of boys and call them out on what they're doing (ask the teacher how to approach this though).

Re kids not understanding: sometimes they genuinely don't, sometimes they've not been paying attention and sometimes they don't want to try, for all sorts of reasons. Make sure they are all looking at you when you're giving the instruction ("pens down, empty hands, looking at me please" is my line). Don't feel like you're wasting time if it takes a long time to get them all focussed and silent - this is a better use of your time than teaching when most of the kids are not focussing. It can also be really useful to ask a child to repeat your instructions back to the class - it's shocking how little actually sticks first time round! Use this to clarify your instructions. Then ask them if they have any questions and set them off on their task. Don't be afraid to tell them that you have explained everything quite clearly and answered all questions so now they need to have a go.

Also, it's week 5 of the first half term, it's very early days still!!! Feel free to message me with any other questions. Hang in there!

The kids at my school have to put their hand up if they want to ask something. If they get out of their seats they have to sit back down and put their hands up. Send them back every single time, be consistent. Same for waiting for them to listen. Wait until you have everyone’s full attention. If it takes too long tell them they will have to practise listening during break. That’ll shut them up and get them focussed. Whatever you decided the ‘rules’ are for your classroom make sure you apply them consistently. You can also praise the ones who are doing the right thing, ‘thank you sally for showing me you are listening, thank you Archie for putting your hand up.’ They’re at the age when praise from a teacher is something they want so dole it out liberally to the ones who are ‘being good.’

Make sure you absolutely have all their attention before starting to explain anything. Everyone silent, every pair of hands empty, everyone's eyes on the board. And wait. It'll feel like an eternity to start with but it gets better quickly. Some of my favourite lines are e.g. "I'm just waiting for 3 more people... 2 more people to be ready..." so you're not naming and shaming but you are making sure the ones not listening know that you won't start until they do. High expectations every single time to begin with - you might sacrifice a bit of pace in the lesson (it's a balance!) But way better to get that set at the beginning. It's also really hard to move from a "helper" role to class teacher - this won't be an issue when you have your own class. Stick at it!

Ps it sounds like you're a super reflective and aware teacher which means you'll be a great one 😊

Oh OP I feel your pain! It isn't you! I am a first year ECT and honestly being a student is SO much harder than when you have your own class. My first placement was in a year 6 class in a very deprived area, but i was kind of 'lucky' that after my first couple of days on placement the teacher buggered off on a 3 day course off site and there was no TA so I didn't have an audience.

It does get better as the children build a relationship with you. Hang on in there!

Your experiences are very much like mine were when I did my first student placements back in the last century. I’d say it’s a big part of your teacher mentor’s responsibility to help you with classroom management methods and it’s reasonable to ask her for guidance on this. Most primaries have a behaviour policy that has clearly-delineated and swift consequences for poor behaviour and most kids respond well when these policies are practical and applied across the school, so it’s worth following if there is one (some primaries, it has to be said, have crap behaviour policies or no behaviour policy at all, which helps no-one). Stick with the attention-grabber, it’s boring I know but if you emphasise that everyone needs to respond to it appropriately and keep doing it, it will bear fruit. You’re very self-aware, and that’s a great asset. Good luck!

It’s very early days and tbh I don’t think your mentor should be leaving you yet. She should be in the room observing properly so she can help you improve your behaviour management. I’m a secondary HoD and I wouldn’t dream of leaving our trainee. What strategies does the usual class teacher use? E.g 1,2,3 eyes on me, 1,2 eyes on you. Clapping a rhythm for them to complete etc?

I have mentored many trainee teachers over the years and I find it really effective to send trainees out to lots of different classes to observe and I tell them to make notes on all the strategies they see teachers using to manage pupil behaviour. This gives them the chance to see what works and in which contexts.

In schools I have been a leader in, I advocate strategies which give first attention to best behaviour.

Set your expectations really high and be consistent. You don’t need to be mean, just over praise those doing what you expect. Find a few great examples of the behaviour you want to see and write their names on the board. ‘If you need to know what I am looking for, see how x is behaving’. Make sure every name makes it into that board regularly. Catch them doing the right thing!

Behaviour management is a tough nut to crack but you’re very new to it and should be mentored adequately to adopt strategies that work and build effective professional relationships with the children so that they respect you as a teacher.

Thank you all. The teacher sings 'are you listening' to a tune and the kids sing it back but I'm not really comfortable singing. She sounds lovely when she does it haha. I stick to the clapping which really works but I don't want to have to do it constantly obviously. She never leaves me alone, she's always within my sight and she can see the class. What I mean is, the kids have their backs to her whilst I'm teaching so they don't notice she's still there.

We have a behaviour ladder which resets every day back to 0. Children can go into plus or minus based on their behaviour throughout the day and receive a reward or consequence for each level they move. Level 3 is a visit from the headteacher and a special certificate from him. Level -3 is being sent to the head and parents called. The levels have special names but I can't remember right now. It's never really been explained to me what students have to do to get put up a level. I have some students who are so fantastic all the time I could put them up 3 levels every day, but that ruins it being special. The well behaved kids have to do something AMAZING, whereas the kids who mess around just have to do the bare minimum to be put up a level it seems? I wonder how that looks to the kids who constantly behave well.

I think because I am new I am reluctant to use discipline so soon as I really don't feel I have the training yet to do it properly. A lot of the kids are quite sensitive and we get a few sets of tears every day. I am worried I will be too harsh and I really don't know the class well enough yet. The teacher isn't very disciplinary but they definitely listen to her more and I don't want to just come into her classroom and start handing out consequences etc. She'll probably raise her voice to gain attention once a session and really let's a lot of things slide.

Ie: there's a couple girls who will sometimes just get up and start 'tidying' the classroom when everyone else is sat on the floor watching the board. I know they're just trying to get out of doing work by disguising it as being helpful. Others seem to say they are upset or hurt every 30 minutes so they can have some time out/attention/sympathy. I really can't tell if they're doing this to get out of working or if they're genuinely just sensitive and need to be acknowledged and comforted. Again, I'm not very experienced so I am just handling everyone with baby hands until I am more familiar with the group.

I haven't had much guidance at all really but I have received a huge amount of praise from the head, deputy head and multiple teachers so I must be doing something right haha.

I will be more firm tomorrow with them and set boundaries. Ie, don't interrupt, put your hand up, waiting for everyone to listen before I start. I'll also look at the seating plan as they seemed to be a bit all over the place today during my session but I hadn't even noticed at the time. I'm sure they took advantage of the fact I didn't know haha!!

One good thing I did do today: I was sat doing a little uni work in the back of the class and just keeping an eye on things whilst the kids were working and the teacher was walking around supporting. Suddenly, the kids started finishing and coming up to me to check their work, not their teacher. They seem to love watching me as I mark their work, praise on what they've done well and show them what they could've done better. I imagine the teacher doesn't have time to do this with them so it's nice they can get the feedback from me 1 on 1. I had 5/6 around me at one point and I kept telling them to leave their book with me, start reading quietly and I would call them over to run through it when I get to them. They don't write a lot at this point so it's really only a few sentences to go through and a few ticks etc. They listened really well, left their books and went away. Then, I had happy kids coming over to me when called to have their work marked. They loved it!!! Usually I would've just had 6 talking to me at once asking me questions whilst I'm trying to mark lol.

It is hard, but I love it. I'm always shocked when the school day ends, it just flys by!!

It is very difficult when you're on placement as the class are never really yours and they know you're not their "proper" teacher.

I did my final placement in a very challenging school. In all honesty it nearly broke me at the time, but I figured if I could teach there, I could teach anywhere.

Your mentor should be offering you feedback and not disappearing. Is there a reward system you could implement - I found this worked wonders (with a mixed Y1 /2 class). Can you shadow other teachers within the school to see how they manage behaviour?

If you don’t want to sing try 1,23 eyes on me. You just say 1,2,3 eyes on me (really clearly) and the children instantly say 1,2 eyes on you. It can be very effective.

I just used to put up my hand to get the class to attention and it was a challenge to the class for who noticed first. The children responded immediately by putting their hands up, sitting up smartly and being ready to listen. Doesn't take long to explain. Reward children/table groups who are first to react. It was a bit of kudos for those who noticed first and a bit of a target for those who didn't notice quickly enough - like a competition. They thought it was fun - they liked to show off how quickly they could respond.

Set out expectations before any new routine is introduced. Whilst I'm guided reading with group A you should complete this task, if you finish, do your spellings/read a book. What should you do if you get stuck? (Ask one person, have a go or put your hand up.)

Comments like - I'm looking for those who are paying attention/sitting nicely/reading quietly. Who is ready to learn? Who has their learning/listening/concentrating/literacy/maths heads on today? Mention a few names. I'm looking for those who are working quietly concentrating/getting changed the quickest/tidying up the most/sitting smartly. Stickers are good to start off with. Rewards for walking nicely into class/being kind to others/not shouting out/being ready to learn. Star of the day/lesson. Smile of the day (would produce some maniacal grins). Constantly, praising and pointing out model behaviour - it doesn't last forever, until you establish your authority. I can't hear my favourite sound! What's my favourite sound? Yes - children concentrating/working hard. How rude! Is someone interrupting? Silly comments like we are not tractors barging about we make a straight line and look like the smartest class walking to assembly. Show (head teacher name) how brilliantly you sit listening/singing in assembly. You'll soon find that you don't have use your voice so often.

In music I played a three note signal on an instrument. The children would sing 'music stop' to the 'tune', which meant silence - anyone not observing the rule would have their instrument removed for a short time. Practice this several times before the lesson starts.

When I trained it was 'go in hard and soften later'. Similarly, it takes time to establish class rules at first and after time has passed you'll find that you don't have to keep on and on reminding them.

Ask to observe how other teachers get their class to attention - you'll pick up lots of ideas, especially from younger classes where teachers expect more noise/free flow play.

By your last teaching block you'll have many strategies to draw from.

This is so helpful thank you

When the class teacher is teaching, spend time observing her - really watch how she engages with the children both when shes explaining to the whole class and also when the children are on task and shes going round the groups. You will learn a lot!

Read ‘Running the Room’ by Tom Bennett. Behaviour is a curriculum in and of itself, and you need to teach the children every single routine and rule, and get them to rehearse it ad infinitum. Use praise and positive reinforcement for the tiniest things, and ‘make the majority famous’. Classroom management is my strongest suit, but it can still go wrong if children aren’t secure in routines and certain of the consequences of poor behaviour.

I teach music at secondary and have NEVER seen it taught well at primary. I would forgo all instruments and just use voice/body percussion to deliver the curriculum. Added equipment is just too hectic.

Hi @Ontheroad22 👋

You sound like you're really thinking about this and know what needs to change to keep the children engaged and on task.

I'm a very experienced primary supply teacher and have to ensure I am engaging and firm straight away as I'm not their usual teacher and could risk losing them at any minute!

I begin with being very assertive using an assertive voice.
I praise a lot about how I am so please they are sitting so nicely and telling them I like to see them looking at me so I know they are listening.
Praise those who have raised their hand to answer questions and don't let those who shout out be heard - 'I can't ask you as you haven't put up your hand' and then ask someone else to answer.
Keep an eye on the time for the input and who long you expect them to spend on an activity.
In y2, be very clear with the task expectations, so they know what it should look like. You could stop them after 5 minutes to check they are on task - show examples and praise again!
Remind them they must stay on seats and you will come round.
'I'm looking for the tidiest, quietest table to go out first / come to the carpet first' works quite well.

These are strategies that help me.
I agree that watching their class teacher is a good idea too.
Good luck! ☺️

I've been teaching primary for many many years (part-retired now).
I think you sound as if you're making a tremendous start and are going to make a great teacher. Well done!
Don't be afraid to be "tougher" on them. That doesn't mean being mean but they DO need to know who's boss. It's perfectly OK to say firmly, "No, you can do this on your own" or "no, no questions at this point, I'm talking." Or whatever.
Of course they're testing the boundaries at the moment but it's up to you to show them where your boundaries are. Anything that is making you think "hmm???" is probably where they're crossing a line.