What would you do? (Switch primary?)

[YetAnotherusernamechange]

It’s a long one but don’t want to drip feed anything.

DD started reception this September. We chose the local catchment school after much paining over the decision ( a few under subscribed schools around so we did have a choice to a degree).

The school never gave me a good feeling, not a bad feeling either - but often you hear people saying ‘oh you’ll know which school’ well I was never feeling that. Nothing drastic, maybe just lacking warmth. Two from entry, full subscribed, feels massive.
We can walk there. We have a lovely childminder doing pick up and after school (after school club too hectic for DC) New head just joined, very good by all accounts.

Im still not feeling great.

Only 3 weeks in, but I’m just not sure we’ve got it right. DD is bright and able, but also sensitive and not very robust in terms of navigating tricky behaviour from other kids (was this way at nursery too). Sometimes finds it hard to click with others too- outside of school/nursery seems fine and able to make friends well (at dancing and swimming etc). Low engagement from parents- 10 parents from 60 attended the parent workshop for example (I know work prohibits this for many). Interest clubs but no spaces for all those interested. All just feels very anonymous and clinical. One school trip in foundation. Ofsted outstanding but 13 years ago… no chance it would be now. Vast majority of kids there will go to local secondary which we don’t plan on using.

She said she’s enjoying school but she’s not excited- she is so flat. I feel like her little sparkle has gone. To be expected in first half term as so tired? Been some pushing and shoving at school (to be expected?) which I know has rattled her.

A school which wasn’t an option to us due to no wrap around now has wrap around and has spaces.

Very small school. Stand alone reception of 15 (teacher plus TA), then combined 1&2, 3&4, 5&6. Not fully subscribed. Attracts families from nearby town as village doesn’t have population of school age kids. We visited and felt it very warm and friendly. They do a lot of trips and visits including a good few whole school ones. Strong ‘house’ system. Gets good results of late for whatever that is worth. Quite churchy which we are not though can appreciate the values. Recent Ofsted good. Siams excellent. 10 min drive away. A range of interest clubs. DC would have to attend the school after school club instead of her lovely childminder which would be a real blow to her. Appears to just be more personal. Kids go to various secondaries as attending from across a couple of catchments.

it’s so so small, it’s not walking distance.. fewer friends to choose from, would we be mad to consider moving her? (Next DC starts next sept so need this sorted ahead of application window closing in jan)

Lots to think about, so many valid points (especially pitfalls of smaller settings)

There is obviously a reason we’ve not immediately shifted her when the wrap around became available so it’s certainly not all doom and gloom at current school.

As a few have touched on, I am susceptible to feeling pressure to get it ‘right’, and sending her off as first born is hard.

Maybe good enough is good enough at the moment. Her being so happy with her childminder is a big ish deal too- means I can work longer hours m without worry from that perspective.

That being said, I want her to enjoy not endure and getting a 4 year old used to ‘the grind’ isnt what we’re aiming for I suppose. But of course the realisation that this phase is a long one might be landing. Maybe this is why the punctuation with trips and the like appeals.

It’s going to be a wait and watch approach i think.

Thank you all

I'd give it until Christmas and see if your DD has settled in by then. It's a big adjustment starting school. The flatness may lift but you're right to have clocked it and to be proactive if the feeling that the school isn't a good fit persists.

My DD did a year plus a term at the first school I'd chosen for her before I had the confidence to move her. The difference in her is immense since changing school and I have my lively, enthusiastic child back. I completely recognise what you say about the flatness and just because it's not dramatic loud school refusal it shouldn't be ignored. DD is learning so much more at the new school and they seem to manage to exercise her brain without just resorting to giving her work for the year above. She looks forward to going and is positive about school now when people ask.

it’s so tricky. It just seems so much nicer for want of a better word. Calmer.

feels to me like you’re projecting your worries as a parent rather than an actual reality as your child is saying they’re enjoying school. School for parents is scary when they’re tiny. But she won’t be tiny for long!

Children are very tired when they start school that is perfectly normal and it's also normal for them not to appear enthusiastic. If they are not crying, upset at drop off that's a positive. One trip also seems quite standard.
If you move her there would be a risk that she doesn't gell with any of the day the other children and then spend 6 years with no close friends. At least at the bigger school there are many more children and she's more likely to find others she gets on with.
Ultimately you have to think about what you feel is best for her, It is still very early days and some children can take a term or.more before settling.
Can you talk to the teacher to get a feel for how they think she is doing.

My kids went to a small school very similar in size to the one you describe, and it was great for them. I get that there are downsides, but some of the upsides we found were:

• the head and all the teachers knew all the children and built strong relationships with them
• it was small and nurturing, and no worry of middle of the road kids going under the radar
• they learnt important skills in getting on with people, because when you have a small pool of friends you usually have to work your differences out
• with a smaller school community, parents were usually engaged and supportive of the school

@Bramshott this is everything I would hope for at a smaller school. Sounds very positive for your DC

This is unfortunately fairly common - any school that was Outstanding at the last inspection was left to get on with it. Presumably saves money/time. The school my son's just started at is in the same boat. There is new legislation that they all have to be inspected by the end of 2025.

OP, personally I think I would leave her at the bigger school. Your school sounds spookily similar to ours (except ours doesn't have any interest clubs for Reception) and realistically, it is hard for them now but they'll get bigger and more confident very quickly. My son was in nursery four days a week and loved it, but he's struggling a bit with school. He says it's too noisy, and I can tell he's missing the friends he had. And he says phonics is boring, which isn't a great start (his nursery did some phonics already and he can read simple words, so he probably is bored). But he's started making new friends now, and we're trying to just have quiet weekends and lots of time to chill out. I'm confident he'll be ok in time.

Could you book a chat with the teacher? They don't know them well yet, but it might ease your worries if the teacher says she's ok in school.

@YetAnotherusernamechange Ive been a governor in a larger primary - twice. Parents who use small schools always say what @Bramshott has said. However they’ve never used a bigger school so cannot compare. I’ve seen amazing headsin larger schools. They absolutely know DC. They have a strong desire for all Dc to to well. This idea that Dc are ignored is rubbish. Teachers have 30 in a class in most schools due to economics. The teachers know Dc so no one is ignored. A head knowing Dc is nice to have in order to foster community relations but what difference does it make to running a successful school? Very little.

What you do want to see is the very best teaching. Children making excellent progress. Children settling down in a calm environment. A well thought out curriculum that makes Dc love learning. A school that’s got a lot going on and Dc can expand learning if they want to via learning an instrument, sport etc. A school should work with parents and maintain a good relationship. Heads should be visible at drop off and collection times and be advisable via appointments. None of this is just available in small schools. How much does a year 5/6 child need nurturing? It’s ok for YR but some Dc need a bigger stage.

YR is early to be making judgements. Of course some DC only get a small school choice. We had small (tiny infants) or much larger infants. When dc came from small infants into the junior for y3, there was an obvious difference. None had learnt the recorder. Our dc had done a residential. Definitely had a broader curriculum and many were confident. So if you are happy with childcare, think twice about a change.

@TizerorFizz this is what I would hope the bigger school to be like.. but I’m not sure, at the time, that it is.

jusy to clarify, I’m not adverse to two form entry. Im not looking ti move her from large ti small- just considering if we should move her and the option we could consider (through logistics and school having space) happens to be small.

I really appreciate efficiency of scale and opportunities some bigger schools can bring, but something just feels a little off where we are. But new for DC, new for me, new head… a period of adjustment and settling and really assessing shortly down the line probably best course.

I really appreciate those taking time to share valid insight and perspectives

@YetAnotherusernamechange I think there’s always the issue of looking at the school in terms of YR. Just starting is always a change for Dc but it’s not the whole picture. Therefore I would look at the bigger picture. Does the school have Dc getting average or above sats? What’s it really like higher up the school? What’s the other school like higher up? How does it compare with results and opportunities? It does sound like there’s work to be done at your school so do you trust the head? Judging schools with no recent ofsted is a minefield for parents. How do you know it’s a great curriculum, teachers are teaching appropriately and stretching the brightest? Often ofsted say schools don’t. It’s rarely the middle achievers who are not stretched by the way. Schools are desperate for them to achieve 100 in sats!

That’s another thing. Attitude toward sats. Some schools are driven. Others do take an outwardly more relaxed approach. Underneath the water the teachers are paddling like fury. How do these schools approach sats?

Lastly, volunteer to help with something even if you work. Christmas fair for example. Get your foot in the door somehow and then you do get to see how the school functions. I would also look at Christmas. Is that joyous? Dd might be enthused about that. Also your DS is doing a ling day when you factor in the childminder. My DDs were never tired but they could relax in their own home immediately after school to recharge.

Oh come on, everyone who reads mumsnet a lot knows there are common themes which aren't necessarily reflective of society as a whole. There are whole threads on the phenomenon of them: not answering the door if no one has arranged to visit, being full after a 'massive salad', washing towels after one use etc. Ideas are definitely bounced around the echo chamber. I also imagine the percentage of active posters is a fraction of the 10 million usernames, especially on specific boards.

I think your expectations are high and also a bit unrealistic and vague. Your dd will be tired. She will get involved in squabbles and have to learn to deal with friendships and fall outs. That is part of life. You could move her to a smaller school but all these issues will remain. She will also have a smaller pool of potential friends and will be in a mixed age class for most of her school life. I think having a sinking feeling based on what you have posted here is a bit dramatic.

Oh come on, everyone who reads mumsnet a lot knows there are common themes which aren't necessarily reflective of society as a whole. There are whole threads on the phenomenon of them: not answering the door if no one has arranged to visit, being full after a 'massive salad', washing towels after one use etc. Ideas are definitely bounced around the echo chamber. I also imagine the percentage of active posters is a fraction of the 10 million usernames, especially on specific boards

I don’t see what a few essentially ‘memes’ have to do with people offering the varied opinions shared on this thread?

Well I think it's very relevant given the same concerns avout small schools are shared on many threads by people who most often don't send their children to one. I've been a teacher for a long time and have taught in 3 form entry schools and in tiny rural schools. I thought my experience of working in education for the past 15 years might be helpful to the OP.

I think it doesn’t necessarily matter big or small it’s down to what’s right for your child and the individual schools. Kids can be bullied anywhere. A big school might be great at sorting it out or might not be. A small school might deal without effectively or might not. My kids are at a fairly small school, they’ve had no friendship issues so far but they could have done had personalities been different. Maybe they wouldn’t have fit in with the kids at the big school down the road, I’ll never know. The school my kids go to is small but still offers great pastoral care and diverse after school activities but it might not have done and didn’t do at one time. My point is, I guess, if your kid is happy and you’re happy leave her. If you’re both unhappy there’s no harm looking elsewhere but the grass isn’t always greener. At primary I wouldn’t move my children unless they were actively unhappy, being bullied without the school doing anything or clearly weren’t learning but maybe you have different priorities?

Yes this isn’t especially about trading bigger for smaller, it’s a case of not being sure this school (which happens to be 2 form entry), is right- and our only other feasible option being v small (due to spaces and location).

Doing my best to weigh them up in their entirety.

My priority is her enjoyment of school. That’s it. We can supplement learning if needed to support or stretch. I just want school days to be relatively enjoyable overall (I’d hope we all want this).

I do think wait and watch for now may be best. She is not actively unhappy, just a bit flat like I say which has never been her nature before. Will continue to prioritise r&r at home.

thanks all

Lots of good points on this thread but I just wanted to throw in a word about walking to school - personally I think this can be a dealbreaker, if everything else sort of balances out. It saves time, you're not at the mercy of traffic, it keeps you both fit, it saves money on fuel and is much better for the environment, you have the option to maybe scooter or bike in later years, and you don't have to get in the car 2-4 times per day for the school run...honestly, I wouldn't underestimate the value of this!!

FWIW my kids went to a warm, nurturing two-form entry school (still smaller than most two-form primaries as ours only goes up to Y4) and they loved it. There were some much smaller village school options (one of which I went to, years ago, when there were 30 kids there in total) but I'm glad I went with the one I did. Lots of my friends with kids at village schools are happy with their choices but the mixed form system is common and definitely doesn't suit everyone. As others have said, small staffing movements can have a massive effect. And there's definitely more pressure on parents to get involved/volunteer/make themselves available for PTFA etc, as there's just an unavoidably smaller pool of parents, which might might a difference for some.

Best of luck OP - my instinct is that your little girl is tired and maybe a little overwhelmed, but that's very normal. I would certainly give it until Christmas at the earliest.

I'm usually on the side of follow your gut and move but I just don't think you can tell this early on. And to be honest, school is a bit difficult and can be dull. Once she really starts to see the benefit of reading and writing you will likely see an improvement in her sparkle.

The other thing is that if the head is new there will be changes afoot. Maybe try to get a sense of what they are like.

@YetAnotherusernamechange I think you will find that the new head is quickly assessing what the school needs to do to improve. If the previous head had been there for a while, they can get stale. Schools coast. It’s not hugely unusual to not be inspected if previously outstanding and ofsted are getting round to these schools. We certainly have 10-14 years without an inspection in my LA! Many are not likely to be outstanding again but, quite honestly, good is a good school. I

I would bet quite a lot of money that the new head will be expecting ofsted pretty soon and they will be doing all they can to evaluate what they need to do to improve and then update their Improvement Plan. What will matter to Dc is achieving it. That’s when you notice the school is going in the right direction. In the meantime, you might find a time of change as the school seeks to improve. It’s vital they do though and quickly if they can.

She's knackered not flat I'd assume.
Reception is tiring. They are babies adjusting to new routines & adults plus CM on top.. when is her birthday?
Two form entry where I am is quite small

Yes, the are expecting ofstead soon given they have not been done in so long. Before Christmas I think? Not sure if that’s a certain.

There have been a few heads at this school over the last 10 years, the new one will be the one in place when it officially slides from outstanding to good so maybe let’s just get that out the way then she has a fresh slate to make her mark/improvements.

@sillyuniforms she is October so older but shattered.
On the back of this I’m really considering sending her younger sister 4 days a week at least terms 1/1.5 (she is v late summer born), otherwise it really will just be an endurance test for her.

I’ve appreciated your measured and thoughtful responses. I feel less likely to take knee jerk action which is certainly a positive!

My DD1 was late summer born and never was tired! They can be more robust than you think. Maybe try and start DC2 with mornings?

I don’t see it as a big issue to go from outstanding to good. It’s fine judgements that determine outstanding these days. Fewer schools are. It would be far worse to go from outstanding to Inadequate. Some schools are doing this. You might well be perceptive and see warning signs, but I can assure you, plenty of parents don’t see this coming. Some do and of course you should check out anything worrying.