How do teachers determine which ‘sets’ kids are placed?

[Dustycloth]

My DD has come home upset as she’s been placed in the bottom set for times tables even though she passed her year 4 government check last year, with flying colours.
Is this a mistake by the school or could there be another factor?

I’ve never know specific sets for times tables and few primary schools I know set at all for maths. We have interventions groups for those struggling. What year is she in now? Could it be more focused on applying them in written problems rather than quick recall?

Year 5. They are put in ‘sets’ for which times tables they answer. So for example she’s only been given the 2’s, 3’s, 5’s, 10’s and 11’s to answer even though she knows all of her times tables. The ‘higher sets’ will be given all of them to answer.

Even if she passed has she regressed over the summer holidays - others might be higher ..

I would also say she may not be in bottom set they usually call them different colours/ shapes. My Ds in secondary thought he had been moved up in science turns out it was a sideways move as they were having 3 mid groups rather than 2 so mixing up a bit .

I remember this problem at the junior school I used to work at, when they put the children coming up from infant school in sets according to their KS1 sats results. One year, 45 out of the 60 got level 2a or above, which meant that 15 children with 2a scores were in the ‘bottom’ set. There were some furious protests by some of the parents, but if the school sets by ability, this kind of thing can happen.

Hmm that doesn’t sound right then. Have they retested since they started the year?

Teachers determine what children can do by assessing learning in class as well as formalised tests. If they can see she's not still consistently secure in all tables, she needs to be given time to practise, which is what she's getting.

How can anything have been assessed when they’ve only been back a week?

I know for a fact she can recite every last one of her times tables, we do it at home, she got 25 out of 25 on her government check at the end of yr 4.
How is giving her the simpler sums helping her practice? She knows them all!

If she knows them all it really doesn't matter then does it.
Help her by continuing to support her learning, extend her if you think she needs it and you can.
See how it goes, 1 week in is too early to be stressing about it.

If she knows them all then it doesn't matter! Could they be balancing the numbers in the different groups? Are you sure she's understood it properly?

She might be able to recite them , but can she do them out of order, mixed up without hesitations?

I should think the groups will be dynamic and if she knows them all she'll be moved ASAP.
They may also be having the questions presented differently: for example be asked the related division facts or to apply their knowledge of multiplication facts to word problems

So far we have completed phonics, reading, spelling and times table assessments, it is possible that your school has too. But we would have no idea why your daughter has been placed in the set she has, only her class teacher can do so. Everyone could guess but you should probably just ask the teacher.

The y4 tests are mixed and also pretty rapid so it does sound like she can do that bit.

Incidentally, on the subject of times tables, my dd had a teacher in primary who made them learn their 13th and 14th times. She says it's one of the few things she learned in primary school she still regularly uses!

I agree but would actually leave it a few weeks before asking- if she knows them she'll more than likely be moved up. OP doesn't want to be 'that parent' for the year over this :)

That won't be the bottom group, unless the whole class passed the MTC. If they did, then she's in the bottom group of an extremely able class, which is nothing to worry about.

As it's bothered her, see how things go for a couple of weeks and then encourage her to ask the teacher about the groups.

Ha, yes exactly this 😆 I don’t want to fire in asking the teacher questions so early in the school year, it wouldn’t be a great start 😬

It’s more that she’s so upset by it, I think she’s questioning her abilities (which is daft because she’s more than capable).

I’ll leave it a few weeks and see if anything changes. I just don’t understand the thinking behind it.

thanks everyone. And sorry if any of my replies were a bit sharp, I’m feeling hangry atm!

We had this, in dc's case it was because they couldn't write the answers quickly. When tested orally they knew everything quickly but physically couldn't write the answers as fast as other children. Still got a 7 in maths GCSE!