Appeals: submitting evidence in advance

[wreckingcrew]

Thank you to all the appeals gurus on this forum, I've learned a lot just by reading older posts. You are doing a great thing.

Our situation is that we've recently repatriated to the UK with DD 8 and DS 3. For DD we've been unsuccessful with Year 4 in-year applications for 8 schools and are preparing for appeals hearings. We need to submit any additional evidence in the next few days and although I've submitted a number of FOI requests to the LA, it doesn't look like we will get answers in time for the submission deadline. Most of the data I've requested is in response to reading the school's statement about why the place was denied - specifically:

• School building measurements including classroom sizes
• Historical data of number of pupils per class pre-2022 (I can find the most recent data online, but pre-2022 the school-level breakdown doesn't seem to be available)
• Most recent school Net Capacity Assessments including minimum and maximum workplaces
• Classroom layout in terms of number of tables, number of pupils that can be seated at each table, etc

My main question is: if we don't receive this data before the submission deadline, but do receive it before the hearing, can we still mention any relevant points in the hearing? In other words, should we be making our best effort to provide evidence in advance to argue against the school's rationale for rejecting the place, or can we do it on the day?

If anyone knows where I can find any of the above data online that would be an amazing help. I've read various posts suggesting it's available, but no joy so far in my searches.

A final question: if we are unsuccessful in appealing, its very likely that DS will end up in a different primary school to DD, which then feeds into a different secondary school. Can the displacement and separation of our children - moving back to the country, DD going to a school in different part of town, and DS going to different schools altogether - be useful at all as part of our argument in the appeals process?

Any advice on any of the above is hugely appreciated!

Someone will drop out or move once term starts so you'll likely get a place

You can certainly mention any relevant points in the hearing. The only restriction is on turning up to the hearing with documentary evidence that you have not previously submitted. If you do this, the panel may accept it, but they are entitled to either adjourn the hearing to a later date or refuse to look at the new evidence. But raising points based on answers you have received is not a problem.

You can put the argument about your children potentially being in different schools, but it is unlikely to carry much weight.

If ds is 3 presumably he won't join a school until September 2024 earliest. When he does your dd may get higher up a waiting list as a sibling , if that criteria is above distance etc. Where are you on waiting lists? However it is likely there will be a space somewhere before then and you can apply to that school for him.. Relocation has limited influence unless it is in circumstances such as a refugee or supported by documentation from a professional like gp, and it is purely about her not your ds. What activities or clubs does the appealed school offer which might help your dd settle?

On what basis were you unsuccessful? Purely existing class sizes? On what basis did you choose the 8? Are they all catchment? Did you include a mix of ofsted ratings or just stick 8 outstanding down?

Thank you for taking the time to reply, very helpful.

Thank you, this makes a lot of sense.

Yes, on existing class sizes. The 8 are the closest schools (pretty much all the schools in our area), so that was the principal reason. The secondary schools they feed into are well regarded vs those in neighbouring areas, so that was also a consideration. Only one of our choices is catchment (is it possible to be in more than one catchment?). I don't think any of the schools are Outstanding, as far as I know they are all Good.

Have you been offered no school, or just not the school you wanted? Unusual to get both into the same school when you arrive mid-year, unless it's very unsubscribed - were your expectations realistic?

Check your LEA policy with siblings in this situation. My LEA says if they have to allocate your DC a school as in your situation then they will count sibling as sibling in catchment.

which of my questions are you referring to?

Just following up - did you have any advice to share based on my answers?

Just that the answers to those questions might give some insight into your chance of appeal success. If you've been offered no school you're in a strong position. If you just don't like the school you've been offered, that's largely a consequence of a mid year move and you'll get it eventually but will likely need some time on the WL.

OP only has 1 child of school age so is only looking for one place, though having got a place could then select that school for the 3 year old.

I think what this poster was wondering is whether the LA has offered you anything? They are obliged to find you a place within an hour (or less for this age?) and to provide travel if that place is over two miles away.

I'd have thought arriving from overseas and needing local schools to settle into the community would be a good reason for an appeal. Also look at clubs the appeal schools offer than your offer your child the opportunity to develop an existing interest.

Thank you, this is very helpful. I can see in the admissions criteria that this is the case for siblings of children who didn't get into their first-choice catchment area school in the normal admissions process, and did wonder whether this would also be the case for in-year relocations. Will give the LA a call.

It was the 'were your expectations realistic?' that threw me off as I can't see the relevance to your point (in any case, yes they were very realistic).

We've been offered a school (and taken up the place), just not one of our top 8.

Thank you. Yes we have accepted the alternative offer at a school in a different town. There are other arguments along the lines that you mention that I think are more compelling, I just wondered whether the displacement/separation point was worth mentioning at all. Seems like a minor argument but not something to build a case around.

sorry I didn't spot that it was one child not two. Lots of people apply for all the outstanding schools, that they are too far away from and have no real hope of getting in to. As an in-year admission it's likely that in any given area there will only be one or two schools with a place at that time. So an expectation of getting into, say, your top 5, is unrealistic (unless you're very lucky and a kid in your child's year has just moved). not getting top 8 is unlucky, but still within the range of normal and I can't see any grounds for appeal.

I just wondered whether the displacement/separation point was worth mentioning at all.

I'd have thought not as you could choose to have your younger one start at the allocated school next year.

Thank you. As mentioned above we applied for every school in our area (aside from faith schools) regardless of Ofsted rating, but I agree this particular argument alone isn't grounds for appeal. Luckily I think we have a good chance with some of the appeals on other grounds.

I'd be surprised. Those who have lived in the area for years would be rightly pretty cross if coming from elsewhere meant you had priority.

We are quite far from the catchment for the alternative offer and based on historical data it looks extremely unlikely that DS would get a place unless we move into catchment before January. I've looked into this, but its a small village with a very small catchment and there are literally no homes available for rent there at the moment. But another poster suggested speaking to the LA about whether they have a different sibling rule in this situation, which is definitely worth looking into.

This exact thing happened to me.

We moved back to the UK and there was no year four place anywhere at all for my dd. She was out of school for three months whilst the LEA led us on a merry dance. Making me apply for school after school and then saying there wasn't a place.

I appealed to our catchment school on the basis that it was our catchment school and was successful.

Wow, that must have been an extremely stressful time for you both. So pleased you won your appeal. I'm surprised that the Fair Access team couldn't find you another place... I thought they were legally obliged to do so.

They were just useless. Old fashioned useless.

They kept saying things like 'you would need to talk to Jane but she doesn't work on Wednesdays' and saying they would call me and then never doing so.

They would not tell me where any places may be so I had to apply for a school then wait to be rejected over and over.

In my appeal I asked the bloke from the LEA what I should do if she didn't get into the catchment school and he said he didn't know. I think that probably swung it in my favour!

Our experience over the past few months has been very similar. You end up feeling completely powerless.