In-year missing out on school advice

[TinaAnit]

Hi everyone 🖐
I'm in need of advice, or maybe just a little encouragement. My daughter is now out of school waiting for a place, and we have no idea when she will be able to start.
We moved to Watford recently, just few weeks before schools reopened, applied for a place but was told admissions will start to work on the first day of school. It just doesn't make any sense why admissions don't start with their work at least one week before opening? Now any kid without a place has to sit at home and miss out. I am mostly worried because she is supposed to start year 1, so even just because of moving schools is going to be hard for her (it was for me when I had to move to another school), so now not only that but she will miss out on introductions about what they will do in the year, new teacher, children, what they will learn etc.
In my head I make it much worse than it probably is, I'm imagining that everyone will have their own friends by now and she will be a new kid. I would appreciate a lot if anybody with same or similar experience can advise either how it was for them, or if there is anything I can do to make it easier for her? We still don't know which school she will be in, because our first choice vacancy shows as no space.

Some LAs work through the summer, some don't.

I would advise that there is likely to be movement across the authority this week, but a space cannot offered until a child has started at a new school. Only at that point can they be removed from another school's roll (unless they are moving to EHE or moving abroad).

With children going back this week, more accurate assessment of places will take place.

We have been on rolling and off rolling for 2 days solid and we won't have a true picture of spaces available inmour school's until Friday this week!

Most kids love to help the new student to the class so I wouldn't worry about friendships specifically. You will have to be patient.

Thank you, that's reassuring. It's not just about being patient though, I have also no one to look after my DD at this time when schools are starting so already missed one week of work, and can't even plan for it because I have no idea when we will get an answer meanwhile bills are accumulating.
I get it that admissions are doing their best, but just thinking there must be some more efficient rules about moving schools ie if someone moves they could be required to get a code from previous school in order to apply a new one..why wait for them to see if they will show up or not on the first day of school?
What's more is double standard where if you take your kid even one day for a trip or family meeting you would be in trouble, but this way kids miss out weeks of school and is perfectly fine 😩💔

When we moved a few years ago it took to October to sort out. The issue is that some parents don't tell the school they are leaving, so they don't know if the pupil is on holiday, or not returning etc. In our case there justvwasnt any places, so we had to appeal.

Frustratingly, the childcare requirements of parents don't come into it!

However once a place is identified it can move quickly... on another move they started the next day!

But how will they get this "code" if schools are closed during the summer? It's precisely because schools are closed in the summer that there is this issue. And how would it work when families moved abroad?

What used to happen is that admissions teams allocated through the summer, but usually had to tell parents that their preferred schools were full, so offered an alternative school, often some distance from the home address. Parents would buy school uniform, start their child at the less-than-ideal school, and the lo and behold, two weeks into term would get an offer from the waiting list from their preferred school as they had kids that didn't return in September. Which means upheaval for the child who has to do settling in twice, and for the "first" school who put effort into settling in a kid and naming their peg and bags and they don't even stay.

Yes, having to miss a few weeks of school is a pain for working parents, but there really isn't a workable solution otherwise.

The problem is that the admissions team have to talk to schools before allocating a place to your daughter to check which schools have a place available. There are a number of primary schools in Watford that handle their own in year admissions. The LA won't have a clue whether any of these schools have places. Even where the LA is responsible for admissions, schools sometimes admit without going through the correct process.

Schools generally shut down completely over the summer holidays. It is unlikely the LA could contact any school until the start of term (or, at best, a day before the start of term). And, as a previous poster points out, schools regularly find that some pupils don't turn up for the new term because the parents have moved without telling the school.

I don't know to be honest I'm the last person to understand the system, as it's my first child. I guess from my perspective what I'm saying is it shouldn't be possible to apply to a new school, before informing previous school about the move (apart from some cases where is moving abroad etc). I was not able to apply for in-year school place without 2 proofs of address, meaning we already had to live here. There could be a system where previous school is automatically informed online whenever new school receives application, if it's because of moving to new place, to give them a better idea.
Yes the schools admissions would have to work some days over the summer months or have temporary replacement, but it would ease things for everybody including school, parents and children. I know it's not as simple as it looks to us who have no experience with admissions/school work etc, but there has to be a better way. I'm sure it's not easy for schools either to have to introduce everything from start and have kids catch up, instead of starting with everyone at the same time (apart from few exceptions).

The school admissions teams do work during the summer months! Checking the proof of addresses, getting all the stuff ready for the primary & secondary school transfer process which starts from sept 1st.

But what if parents are at a school, and want to apply for new schools, and they aren't moving? So they tell their current school "can I have a code to apply please" and then none of the new schools they want have places, so they just stay on the waiting list. Or they get offered a place and then decide not to take it? It wouldn't work. The only way that works is that when parents ACCEPT a new offer, their new school informs their old school that the child will be moving to them, and gets their file. So new school will have contacted old school when schools reopened on 1st sept and said "hey this child is coming to us, can we have their file". Then old school tells Watford they have a place. But Watford need to get the vacancy information from EVERY SINGLE SCHOOL before they can start allocating places (because what if your 2nd pref school told them they had a place, but they hadn't checked with your 1st pref school, who also had a place!) And getting places from 50+ primary schools, all with Rec-Yr 6 classes takes time.

Took 2 weeks for my year 3 and 5 weeks for my year one when we moved during primary school mid year. The paperwork takes time

It can't work like that - it's not like a PAC for switching phone providers.

Some parents would lie, some wouldn't actually move and the child would lose their place, some would disappear to cover up abuse - the only guarantee of knowing where a child is for a new school to say 'yes, he's here'.

If the person who deals with admissions is in during the summer (and many will be for 2-3 weeks already, so won't exactly be wanting their leave to be further restricted - as it is, they'll usually have to work throughout October half term, part of Christmas and most of Easter as a minimum due to the demands that the admissions process puts on them at those times of year), so it's already dangerously close to them not getting their full annual leave entitlement) they're dealing with hundreds of other things that are necessary. They certainly aren't sitting at a desk filing their nails and waiting for a single application to be emailed to them by the council.

From your point of view, yes, it would be more convenient to be able to ring up and have a place on demand. But it's not feasible and not safe for children for it to be done that way.

Thank you for explaining the intricacies of the admissions process. I didn't intend to suggest that it's as simple as making a phone call or that the staff aren't already burdened with a lot of responsibilities; I am just sharing my current difficult situation trying to balance work and having no one to look after my child, but also being genuinely concerned about the social and educational setbacks my child might face missing out on school at this important time.

My suggestion about a possible code from the previous school wasn't to liken it to a PAC for phone providers, but more as a thought towards looking for ways to potentially streamline the process and help parents like myself who find themselves stuck in a difficult position, having to miss work and unable to plan while waiting for a school place.

I understand that there could be exceptions and complicated scenarios that might arise with a system like that, but from a parent's perspective, it is really hard seeing your child miss school while also facing the double standard where taking a child out of school for even a day is frowned upon.

I appreciate that it is a complex system to manage and I am open to understanding more about why it can't work like that. Just hoping there might be a way to evolve the process to help everyone involved. Thanks for sharing your perspective.

Hi OP I'm in Hertfordshire (welcome) and we only moved here last year from abroad. The competition for school places here is quite high, admissions are very busy and it takes admissions over a week to reply to almost anything you send them (outside of the normal application window; I'd imagine it probably takes longer then).

From experience of my own schooling when we moved a lot, you'll probably be waiting a couple of weeks at a minimum before she gets a place, worst case scenario it could be a month or two. It's a total nuisance; I can see it from their point of view of course, but it doesn't help when you're in limbo, especially if you need to go to work, not sit at home with a child!

PM me if you want any local recommendations for days out/things to do if you've come from out of the whole area and don't know anywhere. DS is a year younger so we've been all over the place around these parts.

I think if she's out for more than two weeks they should pay for a tutor for her

Thank you everyone for your input and advice, really appreciate it.

Just a little update of the current situation. We are going into week 3 with our DD not being in the school, despite them actually having vacancies for her year group (vacancies were showing as 'yes' in year 1 for about a week, in our school of choice). At first I kept emailing and calling, then decided to be patient and give some time. Last week we received a letter which said there is no space in any of our preferences, to contact some other school further away. Then I called school to verify this and they said they do have space and that they can see my DD on the list, but that nobody contacted them about her. So now I keep calling every few days as they are telling me to call back if not sorted, we are yet to hear any updates on this.
Now it's weekend so nothing left to do but wait. This all makes it even more frustrating as she could've been in the school since last week.

System is obviously flawed whether it's human error or policies that prevent things going smoothly. I think I stand corrected when I said there should be some other way of doing this. And lesson learned that we should always be questioning things, asking for improvements and change things when they are not working for most of the people involved, instead of accepting that things are just the way they are and that there is nothing we can do about it.

To some extent school admissions is only as good as the parents and carers updating them. People that move house in the holidays and don’t update the school they are leaving, children that don’t show up on the first day of term - are they sick, abroad, started at a fee paying school etc.

Admissions do work over the holidays. How many schools have you contacted so far? If it gets to her being out of school for 4 weeks and you have tried all the schools within a reasonable distance, then look at Fair Access Protocol. Remember you will be eligible for help towards travel to school costs if the nearest school to your home is over two miles away - look at home to school transport. Hope you get a good school soon.

It is just the reality of admissions I’m afraid (I work at a Herts primary school). We can’t take anyone off the roll until we’ve confirmed them on roll at another school. We then update our vacancies. Herts will then (hopefully quickly but sometimes not) offer the place to the first person on the list. They have a period of time to decide whether to accept, and if not they move to the next person. It’s quite feasible that a school could show ‘space’ but the local authority are working through the waiting list waiting for someone to accept the place.

believe me-it’s not in the school’s interest for this process to take long, as their funding depends on number of pupils on school census day in early October.

we will be in regular contact with admissions-chasing them to allocate places if we can see there is a waiting list. It’s an expensive business for schools to just ‘sit and wait’ to be contacted, we are very proactive.

good luck! Hopefully it will work out soon….

…and the problem is we can’t rely on the parents having told us they’re leaving. If plans fall through, they change their mind etc and a child’s place has already been offered, we then would have to take the new child and keep the original one, meaning even larger classes. We have to wait till sept to know for sure they’ve moved schools….

Admissions person here. September is hellish. They will be working on applications that have come in throughout the summer, I don't know of any admission teams that are closed. There will be applications from July to August to work through and it has to be fair, transparent and in line with admission arrangements.

It is tough as we can't liaise with schools during the break, usually in year transfers will need to speak with the school - especially if it's an academy. If it's for reception and you've applied for a school that is full, we will not know if all kids are turning up until the school inform us. We had 200 applications just last week, it is challenging but we will always try and place as soon as is possible.

Appreciate it's hard when you are moving, was it a sudden move? It depends on the local authority but we take applications the term prior to starting - ie you can apply after Easter to start the next September. Hope you get a place soon.