Is this just a polite way of saying that 10% of kids are as thick as pig sh!t

[Reallytired]

news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/education/7267352.stm

Apparently 10% of kids have a memory problem.

"They say teachers rarely identify it, tending to label pupils as being unmotivated daydreamers. "

Is having a memory problem just a PC way of saying that a kid is stupid?

personally, IMO, the kiddies you mention as being unmotivated dreamers/having memory problems/'thick' may just not be academic learners.

my dh is one, as is I fear my DS2......DH was put in the remedial class, but going on how he is now, that was so the wrong place for him. he is highly motivated, highly inteligent, but in a 'hands on' sense rather than on paper sense.

he has all the same symptoms too as DD2 who is dyslexic, so he may be one of those undiagnosed ones who were missed as children simply because his teachers either couldn't be bothered, or more likely, saw that he daydreamed too much to be helped in the only way they then knew (bear in mind he was at school in the 70's/80's when teaching methods were vastly different!!)

as it stands tho...some kiddies day dream because they learn differently, NOT because they are 'thick'..........IMO!

We have had a massive (and that is not an overstatement) effect of bringing in 'hands on' Btec courses for years 10 and 11. Kids who were very demotivated and often very distruptive have been turned around on the BTech construiction course, because they have been goven a chance to study something they enjoy. They go to collage for the practical stuff and we to the maths and phsics (which is an a high standard) Kids who were prodicted F grades and now getting C grades an above.

Its been fantastic to see

That's very encouraging, MB. Always takes me aback when people are snobby about builders - you need a good grasp of maths and physics in construction work (unless you are a labourer, I suppose - but there are plenty probably of labourers who are very bright).

what a lovely thread for me to see when I found out yesterday that DS is to be sent to an ed psych to be assessed for possible learning difficulty

Been down that road TC, it feels like a punch in the gut, doesn't it? Hugs to you.

Can I just say, that now that ds is getting the help he needs (dyspraxia), he has improved a who year on his reading age since September. Getting the help they need is the key. But I know the feeling, it is just so horrible.

thanks for the reassurance MB. With DS it's that he has a big problem with receptive language, so suspect this will be a hard one to unpick, given current state of SALT services.

oh yes. The irony is that my niece is a fullt trained SALT who cannot get a job. How stupid is that?

ludicrous. maybe she should set up for private practice?

Because she has just qualified, I think she needs experience first. And she also has a socila concience, and would most like to work as a salt in a special school.

atm she is working with a single individual as part of a multi diciplinary team, which is giving her great joy, but it really isn't putting her skills to best use

DS has dyslexia and specific language impairment, which means he struggles to hold words in his short term memory but can remember what we did in disneyworld almost 5 years ago!

he is very, very bright and one of the things that indicated a problem was the disparity between his verbal skills, and apparent intelligence and his written work and reading

Ds1 has a memory problem (exewmplified by the fact he completely for got to tell me about todays Eisteddfodd and I have had to bring him home from school, manufacture a costume AND return him all by what, 9.26 am!)- he also has an IQ of around 130 (AS kids get tested a lot) aned exceptional talents in some sporting areas.

And if you called him thivck as pig shit in front of me I would seriously react in a not good fashion.

This is other poeples babies you're talking about for God sake, do you not get that?

do you know peachy, i actually did not pick up on how offensive the thread title is! if anyone dared call DS thick, i would lose my kind and sweet nature in a heartbeat!

The thing is, there is going to be a bottom 10%, we can't really pretend differently. However they are worthy of just the same respect in life, and also the oppertunities and support to fulfill their full potential, whatever that potential is. Just like the 90%

exactly MB, for there to be an average, some fall below, some fall above it

but writing children off as thick as pig sh*t is not terribly edifying for anyone....

surely those children deserve help and nurturing too?

IQ tests and school tests really are very crude in determining someon'es intelligence or potetntial. Annoys me that then life opportunities are based on them.
dd would fail every known IQ test. Cos they are designed for those who can see and have hand function. She has neither.

It's all worthless anyway- as oythers have said there'll always be a lowest 10%. In anything- so if not memory, sporting ability, musical talent, verbal skills- whatever. I think realistically we can all expect our kids to be bottom 10% for something along the line.

And mememory can be a learned skill with certain practice and techniques- unlike many other things.

What happened to valuing kids as theya re and not trying to force them into achieving tasks and criteria set by others that are, frankly, worthless? As adults how much do we need tor emember? Only half my degree eeven has an exam- the rest is assignment and presentation based. And I find in day to day life that lists, notebooks etc are more than adequate.

I read this piece and recognised my dd.

Shes been tested by the ed psych who said she had dyslexia type problems but not a tipical profile, the management suggested was all that was mentioned in the piece.Ed reserchers have known about this for some years, so its just the numbers that make it newsworthy.

10% , Thats awfully high isnt it?

The trick is to keep kids motivated so theuy doesnt give up on themselves, and celebrate any success.Try not to let them become very sad underachievers.

Oh ,and its genetic!

Please don't make the mistake of thinking that special educational needs necessarily equates to being in the bottom 10% of the population as regards IQ. That is definitely not the case.

Of course it doesn't- SEN is a wide spectrum.

Although it is somewhat inevitable that some amount of the ten eprcent will be taken up by the ten percent too- as the Mum of one SN kid who wouldn't fit low intelligence and one that would 9and another NT child who justc ant be arsed!)

also remember that a lot of children in this country are damaged in utero from drugs and alcohol use, and this often manifests itself in memory problems (as well as attention probems etc). Not 10% perhaps but a significant number.
It doesn't mean they thick, necessarily, but damaged.

Ah PPH, sadly true- the number of kids who go to DS1's SN rugby class (a significant number- more than half- of the carers are guardians / foster carers) who have histories of parents with drugs or alcohol issues is appalling. These kids are the tip of the iceberg- usually having additional problems- goodness how many are out there unidentified.

really sad isn't it. such an unnecessary tragedy.

I admit to cringing at the term 'thick' when applied to a child. What does it really mean? Does it make them any less of a human being? With four dc, ranging in age from 11 to 32, I've known a lot of children (though not as many as teachers get to know!!) over the years. Some of them have been very bright indeed, some of them have struggled with learning but I would never apply the epithet 'thick' to the latter.

I'm actually pretty bad at judging how clever/'thick' a child is, and have never done the comparing-my-children-with-others thing because I've never known how it's done. Just because X is on page 9 of a reading book, while Y is on page 14 doesn't mean anything to me. But maybe that just makes me thick.