Do you notice differences between kids preparing for 11+ and those who don’t?

[mamatothreebunnies]

My child (going into year 4) goes to a school that runs from year 1-13, so in theory they don’t need to do 11+ for secondary school however a lot do in order to get into the top schools. We decided we don’t want to do 11+ and are happy being at the school for secondary. However, I’m concerned whether there is going to be a big difference from this year between the kids preparing for 11+ and those that don’t? Most parents I’ve spoken to are planning 11+ tutoring from year4.

We live in a London borough that's adjacent to grammar school ones and a lot of children in DS class are doing it. But many are not being tutored (DS isn't) and those that are only started in year 5. Heading into year 6 now and no, I wouldn't say there's a difference. The 11+ tutoring is very much teaching to the test and very specific skills, as opposed to broad education. The bright kids are bright regardless.

There was a difference, as dc that were not tutored did not cover certain topics. This showed up in exams done in the school to review what the children know. For example, dd got all correct compared to many who had several wrong. The teacher even mentioned dc who are prepping for 11+ would have covered things not already covered. But everything is eventually covered anyway by end of year 6, so does not really matter.

@SamPoodle123 this is interesting. Why are schools that don’t practice the 11 plus (I am assuming state school I wait to be corrected) giving dc assessments with questions they haven’t covered seems unfair or they are deliberately looking for tutored children for some reason?

@SamPoodle123 turns out they do this at my sons school too… just asked him. I had never realised. Still wondering why they do this but as you say doesn’t really matter in the end.

One student in my DD class could not pass 11 plus and is the brightest of them all. I was really gutted for him. Parents did not tutor him and, 11 plus exam is whole different level, you have to teach your child to solve questions using quick methods and how to manage time effectively. I don't think exam is fair at all.
One of my daughter got in and other one is preparing for September test. She has tutor once a week on 1:1 session and I do spend a lot of time with her every Sunday. She has done few mock tests.

That's definitely my experience so far. DS is top of his class, greater depth across the board etc etc but we didn't tutor for 11+ and found he really struggled with some of it. We have done a lot of practice papers and continuous work since last Nov and he's done really well in the mock papers he sat in the last few weeks, so I think he should be fine, but we had no idea what we were Infor or how hard he'd find it when we decided not to tutor.

I think the only difference is that 11+ student will have been taught exam techniques and have covered more of the curriculum early on. So in Sept of Yr 6 they will probably be further ahead however by end Yr 6 the non-11+ kids will have caught up as most schools spend at least the Feb-Easter term cramming for SATS.

I doubt they are looking for kids who are tutored, why would they care? It is more likely they are looking at what dc know and how much they need to cover. They put topics dc have not covered, probably to see if any dc already know it and to perhaps say it is fine if you do not get all right bc you have not covered it? I am not sure.

Yea, it was the same for my dd. Top of the class, never any tutoring etc. But when she first tried a mock she only got average scores (you need 20 points above average at least for 11+!). Anyway, once she covered the gaps she was not taught yet she did really well. It did not take long for her scores to shoot up.

Yes, kind of. The difference between the SATs and 11+ prep is the 11+ is a lot more challenging. I looked at the SATs and it was a lot easier then the 11+ stuff.

I hate what the 11+ has become. It was meant to give children from disadvantaged backgrounds the opportunity to go to grammar school. Now it's all about tutoring already advantaged children to ensure they get into grammar school. Children who's parents can't afford a tutor have very little chance of getting into a grammar school.

I've had several parents tell me how their children can now sit back and relax for Y6 as all the hard work, tutoring and 11+ exams are over. Completely ignorant to the fact that children who's parents can't afford to get them tutored need a class of motivated and ready to learn peers around them. So not only have the advantaged kids been given a great big step up, but they're now creating a poor environment for the children that do need and want to learn in Y6.

It's all very sad, unfair and I wish we didn't live in a grammar school area.

You’re probably right - what crossed my mind however, is if they know who is tutored they can channel their resources to the children who aren’t getting additional support.. just a thought.

My son’s situation is different as we are aiming for the 11+ but what I would say is that the 11+ level has bits that are probably not taught in some schools or are taught later on.

After you’ve done a few mock papers you get familiar with how the papers are set out. I know that your intention isn’t to do the 11+ but yes, I would say actually doing the papers would advance kids. It covers ground that they’ve perhaps not yet studied - and uncovers weak areas that you can concentrate on, so imo they’d definitely end up ahead of their peers.

The verbal/non-verbal reasoning are sort of IQ tests. The more you do, the better you get.

I did the 11+ myself at short notice with no preparation and was very lucky to get in. What I found when I started was my peers were way ahead of me so I had a lot of catch-up.

Ah yes, I think they do that with any bright dc. They tend to focus on the dc who need more support.

Oh yes without a doubt but my DD was way ahead of her classmates in December as was sitting an entrance exam in January so did tutoring Sept-Jan however by the time they did SATS in May the gap had dramatically narrowed.

For private through school (seems OPs school is one of it), if the school takes students from 11+ (Y7) then I think the school will do some kind of different curriculum in year 6 to make sure the leveling between the kids at year 7 are balanced.

The parents in the all through schools that prep for 11+ for other top schools won't simply stop at year 7. So in the end if there is difference are due to other factors.

Thank you all, really helpful insights.