Do teachers not mark books anymore?

[Heckythump1]

DD just finishing Y2, brought home all her books yesterday (including some Y1 books that were kept for moderation) not a single thing has been marked? No spellings have been corrected? There's the odd tick here and there, mainly in the maths books.

Is that normal? Her spelling is awful, which I suspect isn't helped by never being told she's spelling the same words incorrectly over and over again!

I was similarly shocked in y2. And dd had not great spelling -- but spelling tests started in y3. And shes just got 120 on ks2 spag.

However i do think we just hope kids pick it up through reading.

Maybe make a list from her books and practise those ones over the summer.

Spelling is taught as separate lessons and also through English in Year 2. It forms a hugely integral part of the Year 2 curriculum. Not having spelling tests does not mean your child hasn't been taught to spell.

I can absolutely appreciate how this must look to a generation of parents who are used to seeing every piece of work marked in books. It's the school's fault for not setting the expectations appropriately - we send a note home with the books explaining what parents should expect to see and why. Recent (ish) research in education has shown distance marking to be one of the least effective forms of feedback - I.e. the children might not get their geography books out from one week to the next, so then reading and acting on a comment is almost meaningless. In my classroom I move around for most of the lesson, pointing things out and getting children to check/change/edit/practise there in the moment. That might be on a whiteboard or something and not visible in the book, but sometimes there should be evidence of this in their books. If you assume that once the kids go home, teachers have approx 2 hrs to work (on evenings where there aren't staff meetings etc), the 2 hours is usually most effectively spent in looking over the work, spotting common misconceptions, adapting the next day's plans accordingly, putting together a list of children who need to work with an adult to go over something they haven't understood the next morning etc or need more challenge etc. This is way more effective for children's progress than writing "well done" and generally I've found children respond better to verbal praise / high five / having their work read aloud to the class etc than written praise.

This is absolutely spot on. My time is hugely limited so I prioritise my time carefully. I choose what will have the most impact on the children's future progress.

I can only say how I make it work.

During the lesson, pupils are writing/calculating/producing a piece of work for 20-40 minutes (age and lots of other things dependent). During this, I scan the room to check how they are engaged. I check in with my focus children (those who often struggle, or ones who struggled yesterday - see below). Then I repeatedly scan again and check in with more children and give verbal feedback.

After the lesson, all books are left out. I look through/read every book. I make notes about common mistakes, and keep up to 5 books where children need more specific feedback. These children get feedback at the start of the next day, during our "soft start" time. Other children get the general feedback as part of the input to the next lesson in that subject (I adapt the planning in the time I have saved by not writing "well done" when I read their work).

Cycle starts again. I know who to focus on in the lesson, and I am ready to talk to the pupils about their learning.

While my school has a "no written marking" policy, I do sometimes give written feedback to my quiet, very motivated pupils and a selectively mute child, as these pupils do respond well to their written comments. Most children couldn't care less about their written feedback.

They should be marking ofstead looks at marking

Oral feedback doesn't necessarily mean just spoken to, it might be working on a whiteboard or with manipulatives or phonics magnets or all manner of things. "Verbal feedback" just means the teacher didn't have to write the comments/what went well/next steps in the books.

But your 5yo wouldn't be bringing their English and maths books home until possibly the end of the school year? So even if the comments were written in the books, you wouldn't see them until the July.
Parents evenings and reports are hopefully helpful, otherwise just regularly work on all the things like reading, times tables, telling time, helping weigh ingredients for a cake etc.

Nope. Ofsted doesn't give the tiniest shit about marking.

It might care that the marking policy is being followed but it really really doesn't care if every book has a few ticks and a 'well done' very now and then.

We do whole class marking. It is revolutionary. The children actually listen and act on feedback. It's live, meaningful and a genuine discussion between teacher and pupil about how to improve.

Deep marking books takes time. Hours of time. And in Y2, if it takes longer than a few days, it's pointless as by the time they see the feedback, they won't remember what it was for.

The other issue in Y2 is that its the end of the Keystage. You have to be very careful that work is independent for moderation. That means no obvious written feedback. It is silly, but there you go.

Don't assume the teachers are lazy or can't be arsed. It tends to really really piss us off.

I retired recently. I always marked and made detailed annotations. Now I tutor online, and one to one locally. I still mark. Many of the students I teach cannot properly measure their progress because the English teacher only marks tests ( once or twice a term). The school I retired from had a vigorous marking policy. All books were marked, and checked, every two weeks. These are secondary age students. When my children were little their books were marked. I cannot understand why some schools/teachers do not mark books. It seems counterintuitive. I did notice that my children’s grammar was often not corrected. I think that this is still the case with many teachers. I sympathise with you OP. It would make me very frustrated.

@Mummysalwaysright it is getting to the point that you should be grateful that your child has a teacher, budgets have just got worse for schools

Dd is in Y2 and is a visual learner. Whatever she hears a lot of the time don't get registered so visual feedback would be nice for someone like her.

Her teacher doesn't mark either. So very little learning for her if they keep it this way🤷

'These were secondary students'

OP is talking about Y2. It's utterly pointless leaving vast swathes of feedback for children where some are still learning to read.

By your own admission, things have moved on. They really have. In primary, long comments and written targets have been shown to have very little impact. Corrections are still helpful of course when relevant but don't assume progress isn't happening just because you don't see pages of ticks and highlighting...

In my career I've gone through the smiley faces and a well done type marking, to 4 different coloured pens, 3 stars and a wish (which you then had to read to the children the next day because, you know, 5 years old) and now we're on mostly immediate verbal feedback with corrections there and then.

Of all of them, it's the verbal feedback and as-you-work corrections which make the most impact. This is also very well-evidenced in research and peer reviewed.

If a school is still pushing primary teachers to mark at home (when the children have already mentally filed that work as 'done'), then they need to be more up to date and proactive in researching best practise.

If schools haven't communicated this to parents, that also needs to be worked on as it's a huge change from parent's experiences.

What is the point of marking being checked every fortnight?!

"Well done, Pammy, you wrote lots of things in lots of books. Your pupils must have learnt loads!"

Er, it's only evidence that you've spent time writing in books. Surely a teacher's time is better spent actually working with the children, planning lessons to address gaps in learning or meet next steps, planning interventions, preparing resources to support learning...?

And if books are marked deeply every two weeks, that's great, but totally pointless in Y2. Two weeks is a hell of a long time in Y2!!

OP, if you're concerned, speak to the teacher and ask them to explain how they feedback to the children. It should be happening of course but how it happens may not be the same from your school days.

Sitting working directly with a child is the absolute best way to help them progress. Written feedback may look good but actually may be of little benefit in reality.

Presumably her teacher knows she's a visual learner?

By not writing in the book, it doesn't mean the teacher hasn't spent time ensuring your daughter understands next steps in a visual way. It just means the teacher hasn't had to write down in the book that they have given feedback.

Agree.

OP, find out the school's marking policy. Of course it's entirely possible books should be marked in-depth with written comments and the teacher just hasn't bothered all year... but a school with a marking policy like that would definitely do frequent 'book looks' so it would be pulled up sharpish. Much more likely there is verbal feedback going on.

I'm happy to explain any of our policies to parents to help them understand and I'm sure the teacher or SLT would be as well.

I haven’t been a primary teacher for twelve years but still shudder at the memory of Sundays spent marking 30 year 5 writing books. Hours and hours of work that kids would largely ignore. It makes much more sense to give immediate feedback as they are working. Does this also mean you’re no longer expected to work with one group of children for the entire lesson?

I've never managed to work with only one group. Probably the age of children I work with but I prefer to float, catch misconceptions, praise, encourage, refocus and provide next steps. It's so so much better than all the marking I used to do 15-20 years ago that felt a waste of time then

I have worked in a school where the marling policy is marking of every book fir the next lesson if the same subject - so at least 90, often 120 books to mark per night (daily Maths and English, plus one, two or even three more subjects).

I have also worked in a school where marking is minimal.

Good teachers in both schools helped their children to make excellent progress, irrespective of marking policy. Verbal / immediate feedback / whole class active feedback with children fully involved is the best option BUT where adult time is increasingly tied up with behaviour issues and unsupported children with significant SEN , this ‘immediate verbal feedback’ ‘model is vulnerable and very quiet well behaved children can miss out. Certainly in a high needs, upper KS2 class with many children displaying extreme behaviour, written marking can be the ‘best available option so children can read and respond to written comments if adult attention has to be elsewhere.

Ex teacher here and I'm SO glad to be out of it.

I taught from 2012-2016 and it was all about two stars and a wish at that time. It took me hours and hours. Students then had to reply to my marking the next day in another colour... absolute waste of time!!!

OFSTED came to inspect and the head made us lay out examples of our marking in the school hall. The inspectors couldn't care less.

Trust way the best way to get out children what is going on is to talk them. Unfortunately ousted have cottoned on to that because they can be brutal. But actually I have found from doing many many pupil voices…they are essentially spot on and can see here the potholes are themselves.

A book tells the story. That story should be one of progress over the year. If the same mistakes keep happening then that’s the worry. Not whether and if it was marked.

Personally I tend to move around the classroom looking over shoulders etc as I go. I might tick something that is good for example but something that could be improved I might well talk to the child about it there and then.
What would be the point in writing a comment on a piece of work after it was finished, that they will never look at or have the chance to work on. It takes a huge amount of time each day to do after school. Marking is far more effective if it’s done at the time.