Can I make an FOI request to school for anonymised exam results?

[herewegoroundthebastardbush]

I've just been advised my DD will be going into a mixed year 1/2 class next term as a year 2. I have some concerns around this, nothing drastic but I want to find out all I can about how this works and if I need to be worried about her falling behind.

I've asked the head for anonymised exam results data for previous cohort of year 2 SATs, divided by mixed/not mixed classes, to see if overall year 2s in the mixed class do as well as year 2s in straight classes. Not sure if she will give me this info, so was wondering if I can request it by FOI if I need to, or if given the small number of year 2s in the mixed class this would be too easily identifiable.

I know I'm going to get a good few responses telling me not to be so precious and to wait and see how my DD does in mixed; but I just feel better having as much general information as I can get as a context to my own ongoing assessments of my individual DD's needs.

I'm not remotely interested in what any particular child got in the SATS. I'm interested in the relative performance of two different groups. Are you not going to look at GCSE pass rates when considering secondary schools for your child because those results aren't your business as not your kids?

I’m really not interested in grades other kids get at school no. I went to a school with a really good pass rate, I left school with two GCSEs of grade B and the rest were pretty much not working talking about. In any case Y2 is not comparable with GCSEs and you don’t have to make special requests about GCSEs, it’s just available. I wouldn’t be the only parent with the information.

I was in a mixed year 5/6 class when I was in year 5. We had 2 full year 5 and year 6 classes plus this mixed one from memory.

I did really well in school and was academically ahead at this age so guessed they’d put the brightest year 5s with what I remember being the less abler year 6. In fact I remember thinking I was cleverer than many of them, they were also really naughty. It didn’t effect my schooling or results. I feel they used us as good examples for those children tbh.

the best thing was we were a much smaller class size
the worst thing was when we went to one of the other year 5 classes to do some specific year 5 work or the year 6s were on a trip etc we just had to perch at the end of tables or lean on our knees.

i imagine every school does it differently and this was nearly 30 years ago. But I can honestly say other than being in a frustrating class (due to the behaviour and ability) it really didn’t effect me academically - got top grades in year 6 Sats, was a prefect, on the student counsel, went into year seven and straight into top sets for the entirety of my high school sooo who knows!

This is just one thing I've asked! Also lots of other qs such as how they make the selections, how they manage the different needs/curricula, how they avoid repetition, how they ensure the year 2s are still stretched, what additional training/preparation time the teachers have to deal with the challenges of a mixed group, etc, etc.

The poor head. You realise that she has an incredibly busy job, right? And that it's the end of term? And that you're not the only parent in the school who will be contacting her about stuff while she has a huge amount to do (and is probably still stressing about her budget, which the govt hasn't given her the information for)

And seriously, you might say that you have no interest in how individual children have done, but the head releasing the results of, say 10 or 12 children who've been in that class this year WILL be identifying, and she has no reason to believe that any one parent won't make the connection between the results and individual children. Which is why she should be able to refuse to give you the information that you want.

You are over-thinking this and nit picking unnecessarily. There is absolutely nothinguseful that you can do with the information that you've asked for. Your child WILL be in that class, she's with her friends, and you're not going to change schools. Chill. please.

Both my kids have been in mixed age classes and that in itself has never given me any cause for concern.

They went to a very small school with intake of only around 12-15 each year so every class was mixed age. My oldest did very well and had great Sats results. Continues to do very well at the large secondary.

Youngest is still at primary but I had some concerns similar to yours. She’s well behaved and bright but needs to be pushed and I kept being told she was doing ok so no concerns, when I knew she could do much better. But this was more due to changes in teaching staff than the fact they were mixed age groups.

For a number of reasons I moved her to a different school and she is absolutely thriving. But the school she is at now is even smaller so still mixed age and at times all of KS2 are taught together. I have no concerns about this at all. She’s got friends in all different years and is flying academically.

In all I don’t think mixed ages are a problem in classes at primary but the right environment and staff is important.

Are you not going to look at GCSE pass rates when considering secondary schools for your child because those results aren't your business as not your kids?

A secondary school's GCSE data will reflect the grades of literally hundreds of pupils in that GCSE year. You are wanting information about a dozen or so. Which will a) be far too small a number to indicate any kind of trend with any accuracy and b) have the potential to identify children, where the GCSE results of hundreds do not.

So you're very slightly interested, for reasons you can't really explain, but are considering a FOI request. A request that will take hours of time checking legislation, getting advice and collating data.

Could the headteacher not spend that time better? Perhaps supporting the class teacher to make plans for the new school year, to ensure the Year 1s are supported and 2s are stretched?

That aside, it's unlikely to be covered by FOI because
A) identifying
B) they may well not store the data that you are asking for. They store results, but not necessarily the classes of the children who attained those results

You're thinking about this as a negative without the positive. It's likely that the Year 1s in a mixed class will be ones who are more ready for formal learning. Even if Year 1 do need more settling time in September, there will be more focus on the Year 2s in the run up to SATs. Teachers for mixed classes in 2.5 entry schools tend to be more experienced teachers, as it is harder to manage - though isn't always. The gap between the lowest and highest attainers in any class is immense. Being 23 months older than peers rather than 11 is a much smaller variation.

Your request seems pointless. You won't be able to interpret the data as you have no context about SEND or anything else. You don't want to move your child anyway. All you will achieve is a reputation as a PITA. You also suggest you will monitor the teaching. How exactly will you do this?

You are being that parent already. The way for your child to achieve is for you to read to them every day for 10 to 15 mins and them read to you at least 5 days for 10 to 15 mins. Do brownies or scouts, swimming, music if she wants to.go to museums. Watch documentaries in the background not mtv. And do hw with her, learn tt and do tt rockstars etc 5 mins a day. And just support her interests and school.
If you want to know about data use the compareschools.gov website which will give you actual usable stats about achievement. Don't pester the teacher and the head! You probably wouldn't fully get why they make judgements anyway as you are not a ks1 or eyfs expert.

I didn't say I AM going to do an FOI. I wondered if I COULD, or if it would be refused on the basis it's too identifying. I haven't even had a response from the head yet, and I don't expect one until at least next term, because, as I said to her in the email, im sure she's run off her feet right now and doesn't have time to deal with a bunch of queries about a done deal which are therefore far from urgent. It's not like I turned up at the office refusing to leave until I got answers 😂

Given what head teachers have to deal with at the moment in general, and from some parents, especially in our catchment, I'm sure the last thing she's going to get stressed about is a politely worded email asking questions she probably gets every year from similarly clueless and worried parents and is well used to answering, particularly one that acknowledges she is busy and explicitly says if it's easier we should pick this up next term!

I love how in Mumsnet world, you are a disgustingly neglectful parent RIGHT UP UNTIL THE MOMENT you take more than a passing interest in your kid's wellbeing AF which point you instantly transform into "that parent" 😂 very little grey area between...

Oh dear.

You're child won't be doing year 2 SATs anyway. This was the last year that they were statutory for.

Schools may choose to do past papers/ alternative year 2 testing, but SATs are no longer a KS1 requirement. The first cohort of RBL pupils will be moving into year 2 in September and this data will replace the KS1 SATs, in terms of value-added, progress, accountability, etc.

Seems like having historic SATs data will be useless, as you won't have equivalent data for your daughter to make any comparison.

*Your child that should say.

KS2 (Year 6) SATs are staying out for the time being.

That's interesting and news to me, thank you!

The amount of time it would take to gather that information would be better spent teaching your child and running a school. There’s not teams of people sitting around waiting to fulfill these requests and the things you e suggested that you would do a s a result you could be doing anyway. It’s hard to compare cohorts anyway as they are specific to that set of children. Also they could’ve divided them differently in previous years.

Well there we are, panic over - head has emailed me back a BRILLIANT email, full of detail about the structure and methodologies of the mixed class, selection criteria etc and it all makes perfect sense to me now. She also gave me some example outcome data from a unidentified year instance that predates my DD being at the school, but a year that was taught by the class teachers my DD will have next year (they hav indeed been doing it a long time!), so I would have no way of identifying the children concerned, and it illustrates well that there was no disadvantage to the mixed class in terms of attainment. She advises me this has held true in other years.

I'm so relieved, not just because the info I've had is reassuring but because the response was so swift, so detailed and so open, with no defensiveness or dismissiveness. I now feel even more confident than I did before that if I have any concerns about DD's learning or wellbeing at any point they will be considered openly and fairly.

I'm going to send the head a very grateful email, and I'm going to make sure that next year I'm a bit more live to DD's learning objectives etc than I have been, and also to get much more involved with parent support of the school (volunteering, fundraising etc) as I feel very supported in the relationship and want to return the favour! Feeling very pro-school and community-spirited right now 😁

Just goes to show not every teacher/school takes it as a massive insult or imposition when a parent is concerned for their young child.

"Just goes to show not every teacher/school takes it as a massive insult or imposition when a parent is concerned for their young child."

I missed where this was claimed in this thread?

Glad the Head has assuaged your concerns and that you continue to have confidence in the school and their methods.

I'm.not sure what you will.learn from it because each cohort will have different abilities. You are simply assuming they will be broadly the same as your DCs?

I remember when I was a Governor and the year end GCSE stats were released. We were given anonymised achievement v expected achievement based on their historic record(Y6 SATs I think) so we could see how they had actually improved in their secondary years. One year they appeared to do fabulously based on the stats that get printed in the papers but it was only what we expected as they had always been a bright lot. That sadly put pressure on the staff and the next year where they had entered the school at Y7 with much poorer, on average, results and in the papers it appeared as if the school had declined. Poor children and staff- both years were broadly in.line with expectations.