Do teachers cater for Children who are advanced learners?ced

[Timetoeat]

Hi,
MY Child is starting School in September and is advanced in some learning areas, including being able to read Chapter books (not taught,just can).
We have been told that the School will try to provide some work that will challenge but I'm looking to hear of first hand experience from parents or teachers of Children who are advanced.
Was your Child's learning needs met or were they bored silly?
Do they realise that they are ahead and pretend that they actually don't know how to read etc to fit in with the class?
Any Advice welcome . Thank you.

My son has asd and adhd, he is a very clever boy however school just wasn’t for him. He hates it. He becomes overwhelmed in class etc. he could also read pre school - I did not teach this.

He is the youngest of 4 boys. Because of his difficulties getting an accurate learning level is difficult due to his asd and the way he presents in school. He’s been a challenge - you don’t know how your child will be in a classroom with others. Hopefully absolutely fine but perhaps wait and see, support them then once they’ve settled broach the extra-more challenging work as being bored is not much fun and I think my son feels that but perhaps for different reasons. School as a whole for him is a waste of time, rubbish etc
it’s been a slog getting to p7 and how he’s off to high school so who knows how that will go.

@SausageinaBun current government policy and Ofsted pressure will always have some influence on who is prioritized in education. At the time I was working we had a labour government who were quite keen on being egalitarian about it and I worked in a very socio-economically diverse school which had a fairly left wing culture as well as an engaged parent body. I was able to combine doing things that were noticed as 'outstanding' in the framework with things that are extremely important but are not measured. Things changed after Gove was minister for education as he brought in a massive amount of extra content, academisation and reduced respect for teachers professionalism meaning there is far less room for teachers to adapt to the classes they have now.
I left after 10 years of teaching as I could no longer balance what government and academy policy wanted of me and what was important socially, emotionally and educationally for the children.

Times have changed. Can't even use the word differentiation anymore. Adaptation. And that has to be adaptation within their year group.

It is what it is.

But who is telling you you can't use the word differentiation? Where is that coming from? Often things in education are repeated from a mystery source. I've never seen the source for this, nor was it mentioned by Ofsted when we were inspected recently.

Re prioritising, I don't imagine anyone feels particularly prioritised in a primary class. If Y3 children do 30 minutes of independent work (which would be good for that age), that's one minute of teacher attention per pupil, not including time to move around the class and assuming there are no other catastrophes happening and even no minor issues to sort (missing books, child being collected early, child with nose bleed which happens ridiculously more often that you'd think!). How can anyone think less than 1 minute per child per lesson is enough?

I'm sure I wouldn't know or care really. It comes top down and you do as requested.

Some children get no individual time. The teaching and modelling is enough to complete tasks independently. Which is the aim. Some people need more. The priority of the education system, again coming top down, is to target borderline children.

Anyone working greater depth should be able to tackle the challenges somewhat independently in the large part.

DS2 is now at sixth form doing a levels in maths, further maths and physics and is on course to get A* across the board. He also has ASD and ADHD.

School (mainly primary but also first year of secondary) was awful. They focussed on his weaknesses rather than his strengths. I'm not even talking about academic verses social skills. Eg you can't be in top set because you don't rote know times tables or approved methods even if you achieve the correct answer. It was not random but due to using a different method. Some teachers do not have secure knowledge and rely on the method they have been taught and are hostile to the use of alternative methods especially if they have not been explicitly taught in the classroom.. This is not good for self esteem.

Internet school saved him. He took his GCSE maths 2 years early and in other lessons the alleged behavioural issues that prevented others learning (and led to him being told off all the time) did not manifest or were invisible.

He attended internet school for the whole of secondary and so far I can't see any negatives.

Before he attended internet school there were huge issues. Academic and social. Luckily his EHCP funded alternative education.

"Times have changed. Can't even use the word differentiation anymore. Adaptation. And that has to be adaptation within their year group"
This is completely false. According to the government's teacher standards: all teachers must "know when and how to differentiate appropriately, using approaches which enable pupils to be taught effectively".
If you don't do that, then you don't have the minimum competency to be a teacher. Teachers must differentiate, according to the government standards for their profession.
"Adaptive teaching" is a fashionable nonsense. The basic idea with adaptive teaching is that you set the same goal for all learners, then give them different amounts of support in getting there. Sounds plausible. Until you consider that some learners in the group may have reached or surpassed a goal which was set without looking at their prior attainment. When this happens, adaptive teaching is in conflict with statutory minimum competency requirements which state teachers must : "be aware of pupils’ capabilities and their prior knowledge, and plan teaching to build on these". Adaptive teaching is just another pretext for one-size-fits-all provision.
See https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/665522/Teachers_standard_information.pdf

Yes of course they do, and for those of low ability and all that in between that's why teachers are on strike. Their workload is astounding

And?

Again top down. You do as directed. The word deferentiation had to be removed from all our paperwork.

I really don't care to debate this. We do as directed and the wording has changed. What that means in reality is of course very different. But yes I see little choice from the government who cut budgets and wont fund teacher pay increases and other things. If there is no support staff. Teaching will by default become a one size fits all.

You can't keep the tide back with a broom stick.

We can only do so much.

@AuroraCake But it's not top down. Top is the government, and government statutory competencies for teachers still say you should differentiate. And it's not coming from DfE or Ofsted either.
One-size-fits-all-ism in various forms like adaptive teaching are coming from ideological quangos like NCETM and EEF and from consultants who are prepared to parrot their line to make a buck. Your headteacher or academy chain management has been suckered by them into accepting a load of dangerous nonsense.

How did you get your child accelerated with the teachers not being aware of this being allowed?

You’re right with what you’ve said and even headteachers often don’t realise they CAN and in some situations SHOULD. I am finding this at the moment and wondering what you did. TIA

Agree with this. It's not something I've ever been told in my LA, only read about online. Every teacher of a mixed age class will differentiate for a start.

Honestly, no. They often say they will differentiate/ make special arrangements for advanced children, but the truth is that primary schools dislike children who are ahead even more than they dislike children who are behind. If your child is already meeting the targets for year end, then they won’t be taught anything new as the teacher will direct all of their time towards the children who are behind.

My child was 2-3 yrs ahead in everything when they started school. They learned absolutely nothing, for years, and were so bored and miserable. Eventually we were forced to move to private school so my child could actually receive an education.

Hopefully your school is better than our local state primary, but keep a close eye on the school and be skeptical about what they tell you is my advice to you.

I agree. Not all teachers but some definitely dislike or resent very bright children. Perhaps a bit of envy- the very bright teachers tended to be much more supportive .

The best thing I did was find a tutor who was a primary teacher who had been a "top of the glass" child herself and my sons had the best time being stretched by her.

(That and have a house full of books!)

Or perhaps it's more the case that teachers are under more pressure to close the gaps in attainment and so focus the lower ability more (as they're the ones they get asked about at data meetings), spend all their time and energy doing so and therefore have no time or energy left to push the more able. Sad but true.

In my experience, no! My now 7 year old is bright, but not exceptional and found reception horrendous. He used to be given an iPad to use when bored, which would socially isolate him. The (good state) school basically refused to differentiate work, as 'it would become even more of a problem next year'. Coupled with a total indifference to tacking violent behaviour in some of his classmates and we pulled him out half way through year 1 and moved to private.

My daughter is coming to the end of her Reception year @Timetoeat and although she is not as ahead or gifted as your son, she is bright. I'd say that the Reception classroom and school life has been anything but boring. There is so much for them to learn over the course of the year, and so many different styles of play/exploration that I'd say that there is a lot of "stretch" but not necessarily in just maths and literacy. The playground dynamics, lunchtime, encounters with older children, visits, school trips have kept my daughter fully engaged. The phonics and maths are a just a small part of a huge day for a 4/5 year old.
I'd guess that your son will be fine and will have so much to learn over the course of the year that it will all be ok.

Tbh differentiation and adaptive teaching are pretty much the same thing as far as I’m concerned. I think the reason differentiation isn’t in fashion at the moment is that it gets associated with poor practice (limiting which questions a child is ‘allowed’ to tackle, having very obvious ability groupings that never change etc). Adaptive teaching just sounds a bit more… adaptive to children’s needs, but a good teacher would differentiate in that way anyway.

@VashtaNerada They are not the same. Several forms of differentiation are explained here https://stivodifferentiation.wordpress.com/differentiation-tips/
Adaptive teaching is differentiation by support only.
So the message being sent out is that differentiation by support is good, but differentiation by task, outcome, pace or content is bad, which is false. Differentiation by support benefits weaker students whereas differentiation by task, outcome, pace or content are the main strategies to extend more able students. Therefore the core message of adaptive teaching is: "help the weaker students meet expectations, but don't bother doing anything to extend the more able."

That’s interesting @EctopicSpleen - it’s not how we use it at my school. I always have extra tasks available for those who’ve grasped it quickly and there’s plenty of opportunity for discussion and asking questions to broaden and deepen the topic. But yes, plenty of scaffolding available too if anyone needs it.

DD was the same. She was forced to begin from the start of the reading scheme and read every single book, even though she was reading and understanding novels. Both in primary and secondary I was constantly contacted to tell me off for her being bored in lessons

OP, Year R is still part of EYFS so retains elements of child led and play based learning. Although the phonics schemes and maths work in Reception won't reflect the level your DD's at, and the school are likely to want her to jump through all the hoops so "her foundations are solid/there are no gaps/she has achieved mastery" etc, it might only be a small chunk of the day in the scheme of things that she finds boring and repetitive, so may not impact emotions and wellbeing all that much. (It starts to impact wellbeing and engagement more as they move up through the school and the boring stuff expands to fill most of the day.)

The Reception teachers will almost certainly want to assess your DD at the start of term along with all the other children and form their own views before having any meaningful conversation with you about her learning, so I would be inclined to wait and hear what's said at parents evening after half term, and then request a longer chat with the teacher. Before September I'd just mention the reading in passing, and focus any conversations now on social and emotional aspects of the transition to Reception that are of concern.

I don't want to depress you but my experience, like other posters, is that there's not a lot of help in primary for the outliers who are very able. The reasons vary. Some schools/teachers are really good at differentiating for the typical bright kids in their classrooms and I think genuinely don't get it, that that's not enough for the outliers, the exceptionally gifted or whatever we choose to call them - so they will tell you not to worry, they know how to support your daughter, all is fine. Some schools/teachers will feel that bright kids have already won the lottery in terms of ability and don't need extra support and resources directed to them, especially when so many children in the class are struggling to reach age related expectations. Some have a certain preconception of how a bright child should present and behave ie an engaged self-starter who gets all the questions right and shows they are "ready" for and deserving of the greater depth work - so the disengaged child, or the one making inattentive mistakes, or the one who's not playing ball with colouring in the spots on the ladybird to work out what "double 3" is, hasn't yet shown they are ready for more differentiation than is being provided and/or isn't as clever as we fond or pushy parents think.

Not wanting to depress you but...They told me at Reception parents evening that my DS's next step was to add and subtract 1, working with numbers up to 10. At that point he could use mental arithmetic to calculate what he could afford in the shop with his pocket money and work out his change, because I'd told him he couldn't have pocket money until he understood the maths to use it (rookie error on my part there....), and he had a solid grasp of place value, addition and subtraction to pretty big numbers. He was also fascinated by the notion of infinity. But the teacher breezily told us children sometimes rote-memorise counting patterns without understanding and as parents we don't realise they don't understand the value of numbers, which is what school is there for - the maths equivalent of the "barking at print" comment mentioned upthread. So DS spent Reception not engaging with what they called "maths for babies" and finding alternative fun instead, which was a pain for the teachers who needed to evidence that he had met the curriculum tickboxes for the year. This is a very typical experience in Reception and KS1.

Being DME or "twice exceptional" (gifted and neurodiverse) makes it even harder as schools tend to either focus on supporting only the weaknesses, or, if the child is managing to meet age related expectations and isn't disruptive, provide no support at all for either the strengths or the weaknesses, as the child won't tick the boxes for either SEN support or more differentiation for their strengths. My DS is v bright and dyslexic and in all honesty, neither end of his needs is well supported in school. Though I understand teachers are under huge pressures and resources are v v stretched, of course. We are lucky to be in a position to support at home by giving him scope to pursue his interests and hobbies, arranging specialist dyslexia tuition, and providing space to process the emotions, anxieties and frustrations he's feeling around school. But none of this stuff is easy.

I'd recommend looking up PPUK's resources for parents if you haven't already.

Good luck.

And I second the comments upthread that it very much depends on the teacher - and if you are very very lucky, one year your child will have a teacher who's been there (themselves, or their own child, or both) and has the lived experience to truly get it.

But in reality both is happening and should be happening. Some people need support. Some people need it by task. Provide rhe tools that child needs to achieve their potential.

And really reading here has been wye opening. I have taught some seriously intelligent children extremely able. Not one of them had things they couldn't work on. Whether that be academic, social mor emotional.

Truly gifted children are rare and that in and of itself is a special educational need.

What I have found is my seriously intelligent ones are often 'brittle bright' lack resilience because they have never had to try amd at ricknof reaching their brick wall and giving up. I am always super excited to meet one with an absolute thirst for learning, takes direct I struction and criticism in their stride and are motivated to succeed.

Schools vary on many things. Yes they may cap reading levels and the children may not be challenged in that regard. But these things will plateau inevitably because once you can do it you can do it.

General knowledge, curiosity, questioning skills, reasoning, problem solving, comparative skills.

That is what you are looking for.

@AuroraCake
"What I have found is my seriously intelligent ones are often 'brittle bright' lack resilience because they have never had to try amd at ricknof reaching their brick wall and giving up"

And this is what so many of us as parents worry about. Many of us may have experienced it ourselves. We know the risk of lack of challenge for our children. We try to build resilience at home and through non-academic extracurricular activities where they do have to try, to build the emotional muscles for when they do meet a real academic challenge, but it's only a proxy and there's no guarantee that the resilience learned from working hard at guitar or dancing or whatever, will be enough to avert the crisis if it's years (Sixth form, uni, postgrad or even the world of work) before they meet that academic brick wall for the first time. Behind every one of your seriously intelligent ones who have never had to try, I bet there's a parent who has begged school every previous year to differentiate the work so their child does have to try. And yet they keep arriving in your classroom lacking resilience because they've never had to try...

That thirst for learning and motivation you mention seeing in some, are usually in great shape in all of them when we send them to school at 5. And their questioning and reasoning skills are up there as well. (Do the Reception teachers see how knackered their parents look after nearly 5 years of keeping up with the relentless curiosity?). However, many of them will have had the spark crushed out of them by the time they reach your classroom, though, or learned to keep their heads down.

But when that happens, so often we talk about them having levelled out, or not having actually been "gifted" after all, or not having had what it takes emotionally, or a myriad other things that ignore the elephant in the room that is years of unmet educational needs and their consequences.