Composite class in large primary school, where the older group is in a transition year

[Y34Class]

Trying to gauge how this will work.

Y3 and 4 at a First School being mixed for next year, there will be 2 classes of Y4, 1 of year 3 and 4 and 1 of Y3, there’s usually 3 classes per year.

Y4 will move up to Middle School next September.

Parents are worrying about how the transition will be handed. My DC will be in the mixed class and I’m also worried.

We’re being promised that the Y4s will still get their residential and their end of school trips and treats, plus they’ll still be able to voted onto school council or as house captains, but these are usually done by all of Y4 together so parents are also worrying that all those jobs will go to children in just the Y4 classes not the mixed.

Will it be ok for that class? I’m concerned that my DC will be held back by the lack of opportunities usually granted to Y4 in a First School. I chose the school because they don’t usually make composite classes.

I'm not 100% negative about it, DC will be with the same teacher they've had this year and they get on well, will be in the same classroom and will be with a small group of their friends but not many.

I look at this and wonder if there might well be real benefits to this.

What do your KS1 results look like for last year for your year group?

The reason I say this is because Y3 have been one of the hardest year groups nationally from Covid because they were in reception during lockdown.

What happened was many of the kids missed key core knowledge and foundations skills that have meant that in Y2 and Y3 the shit began to hit the fan because those gaps really have started to matter. They also are really lacking in a number of social skills and have struggled with relationship in a way that many schools have never seen before. This is relevant because normally a mixed year group would have greater issues with maturity levels than are likely now. This academic and social gap applies particularly to Summer Born Girls (the SAT results for Summer Born Girls showed the biggest decline nationally, with Summer Born Boys be next worse affected but not quite to the same extent).

Our school's SAT result were really appalling. The SEN kids are REALLY struggling more than some of the other kids. They are WAY WAY behind the rest of the class and its starting to affect their confidence.

I know that in practice DS's teacher has had to be teaching Y3 stuff, alongside Y2 and Y1 stuff that even the pupils who are most struggling should be able to do now. Being in a class with some of the brightest and oldest kids, maybe ISN'T the best for all of them.

What you MAY find is that a 'softer' Y4 with a certain amount of repeat of Y3 is EXACTLY what the SEN kids and Summer Born kids actually NEED. And the benefit may be to go at a pace that is more helpful and to fill in the gaps that they've missed - and this will help them a lot more going into Y5 and Y6 and beyond because they've learnt what they NEED rather than just trying to keep up with their their peers and failing to achieve that. It may in the long term mean they are better placed to compete with their peers even if this doesn't seem like that now. Being confident in what they know and feeling like that don't have huge areas which they simply don't understand is a lot better than being in a class where they feel they are almost 'drowning' because they are struggling so much. Its a one step back to take two forward approach which makes a lot of sense.

Rather than seeing it through the lens of how these kids will be disadvantaged, maybe consider why it might ultimately help them and what benefits could come from it.

I wouldn't normally think this was a good idea, however the Pandemic created a unique situation and the problems with the Y3 age group across the country are HUGE. I'm hearing it from multiple friends in different schools.

Remember it is in the school's interest to try and push up kids who are below the expected level to the expected level and at the expected level to working at greater depths regardless.

@RedToothBrush Thank you I hadn't thought of it like that, my DC has SN so it could help them to be in this class.

It just does feel a bit mean theres 2 full classes of Yr4 and a mixed class with Yr3.

Mean is a matter of perspective though.

If you have a child who is really struggling either academically or social, is it mean to expect them to keep up with their peers when they simply don't have that maturity / are unlikely to be exceeding at primary level.

Kids develop at different rates. If they have confidence they are more likely to achieve later on.

I look at it from having an early Sept baby. There's been times he's been way ahead and I wish I'd had him a few days earlier. Then I reflect on the youngest kids in the class and how they struggle a lot more with confidence.

Being the eldest for a while might really give them opportunities to shine and build their confidence they would never had in the other classes because comparatively they DO have the maturity compared to the Yr3s. (SEN kids tend to be more emotionally immature so will play better with slightly younger kids especially at that age).

Remember it's a marathon not a sprint. It's about building foundations for the future. Maybe they won't get some of the other opportunities that the other yr4s get. But arguably they are the kids would would miss out on many of those things if they were in the main y4 classes. Conversely it may give them opportunities they wouldn't otherwise get.

What's important is THEY feel they are getting opportunities - if you are constantly comparing with their peers you are projecting this inferiority complex that they might be completely oblivious to.

You have to judge the kids in terms of aiming to maximise their potential and experiences. Rather than comparing this to the other kids.

Being the Big I Am at the Little School rather than the Bottom of the Pack at the Middle School may be an all-round better experience from their point of view. Seeing it through the lens of an adult who feels their kid is somehow being judged as inferior hence 'relegated' to the mixed class is seeing it from the wrong angle.

So we've had a letter round with more details tonight

The y4s in the mixed class will be treated as Y4s not Y3s. They'll still be doing trips, activites and some lessons with just y4 (like Maths apparently). Some things will be with just their class, and other things will be with just y4 and then all 4 classes will do a lot together.

Apparently at the start of the new term in September all the Y4s will be together to vote house captains, school council and other Y4 only jobs and the ones in the mixed class will not be penialised in anyway and will still have to chance to go for those jobs and be apart of the voting process for it.

I'm a bit more reassured now. Thanks everyone

That sounds better. They seem to think maths is too difficult to teach in a mixed group. I would think some English/literacy might benefit from this approach too.

I think you have to trust the schools to know what they are doing. Mine have both been in composites. It was absolutely fine. They still did things with the rest of their year group.

This was how it was done when I was at primary in the 70s and 80s. I was in the younger side of a composite as I was old for my year and it was split on age. It’s not how it was done when my kids went to primary school. Times change. My eldest was old for year and was put into the older side of a composite. It was the more able children chosen as they could work more independently. He’s in the senior phase in high school now and got straight As in his exams thus far so definitely not low achieving

The older side of any age group has
an advantage for years. It’s the youngest that are considered (and might well be) the least academic due to birth date so can be mixed. Poor teaching can add to the problem for them. Plus the feeling of being singled out for no good reason. The op is saying it IS being done as 70/80s - times have not changed everywhere.

Older Dc are nearly always advantaged due to being the oldest and maturing sooner. An early September born has had 11/12 months more learning time than a late august birthday child. Summer borns have no advantage and the op’s school is putting them with younger children without considering academic progress or their needs. Purely birth date. That they now recognise maths teaching with their peer group is important, it’s a step forward.

We were told on Monday that the two current year 3 classes were merging and that 1 class would be mixed with the new year 3 class. So 1 year 4, 1 year 3 and 1 mixed year 3/4 our child is in the mixed. I understand why the school can't afford a second year 3 teacher with numbers low in the current year 2 but our child had missed 2 terms in reception, 2 terms in year 1 the school have said that she is meeting all targets and expectations etc but she's in the mixed class she is also one of the older children. It would make more sense if it ability or age related. I fully believe they knew numbers in September but decided not to tell parents until the last minute in case parents took their children elsewhere.

They will never reveal class arrangements early. However parents must realise small classes are not sustainable. Again, they could mix all classes. When I worked for the LA, parents certainly did remove DC! There is no easy solution. I think schools see one mixed class pisses off the least number of parents!!

They've had transition today and DC is thrilled with the arrangements.

Same classroom, same peg, same tray. The only difference is they'll have a few younger classmates and some of their friends are in the other classes. But DC says they'll still see them lots.

All good then!