Help on approaching issue with teacher with the Head

[cleareyes]

My DD is in year 4 and generally loves school and always has. This past year she has on and off been upset about going in on a Monday - this is because on a Monday they have a different teacher to the other 4 days.
She says she shouts all the time, is horrible to everyone, and she hates being in school on a Monday.

I don't think my DD is the one being shouted at directly, but whatever this teacher is doing it is affecting her to the point that she was sobbing this morning not wanting to go in. She won something for her sport at the weekend and didn't want to take it in to share as she had this teacher.

This has happened one too many times now (the Monday morning stress) so i messaged the class WhatsApp group to ask if any other kids have issues (as i vaguely remember things being said in the past) Well... i had a barrage of messages from other mums all saying pretty much the same thing. One kid was even off today and their mum said it was because he gets that worked up every Monday she just didn't have the energy for it today. Some mums have raised this with other teachers and the head before as well.

I have now contacted the head teacher (who told me off for use of the word mean! as said by my 8 year old) and did say that I don't think this is an isolated incident. She replied along the lines of 'All our staff are professional, teacher has many years of experience and teacher has high expectations and only wants what is best for the children'
She then put that she thinks by DD's difficulties may be due to the change of teaching style and personality ... no shit.

Anyway, I have a meeting face to face with the head tomorrow now and I'm after advice on how best to approach this is the head continues the defensiveness without acknowledging there may be a problem.

I am happy to formally complain and have several parents from the class willing to co-sign a letter, but would obviously prefer not to go down this route.

I realise there are only a few weeks of term left, but there is also a possibility that this teacher may be DD's full time teacher next year :(

I honestly feel for you. Ignore all the rude comments. Next meeting with headteacher or head of department (might be better), focus on the main issues like say your daughter feels scared by the shouting etc. obviously the headteacher is quite defensive and sensitive. I'd just focus on what the issue is and what's happening with my daughter rather than bring other parents issues into it. Hopefully it gets sorted. If you bring the other kids up it might damage the relationship your child has with that teacher. I'd rather be a bit cautious and deal with it calmly instead of going in all guns blazing.

Having seen your points about events yesterday I think you need to calm down.

Nothing the teacher said or did was wrong. She told children to cross out not rub out. This is quite the norm in many schools and hardly worth a mention unless a child continues to not obey the rule.

The water thing is an entire school rule it seems. Talk about that rather than have a go at the person enforcing it.

She made a joke to a child who fell over. Hardly a hanging offence.

Parents like you are creating the teacher shortage.

Poor woman.

I think you are doing the right thing op. Some people have it in their head that all teachers are angels. Really not the case.

I would be clear and factual.
Don't mention other parents
Give a few examples
Ask if the teacher could be observed by a slt
Be clear that you do not want your child to be in this teachers class next year.

I agree with this. Why on earth would you do that?

I don’t really see why people are so shocked at parents communicating via WhatsApp. They chat in the playground about it anyway. The teacher sounds like she could be pretty terrible, or the problem may be about the contrast with the other teacher and the fact that it is Monday. I doubt there is much the head can do about it so don’t expect anything to happen this term. You can ask if your DD will get that teacher next term but they may not want to give you that information as it could cause a flood of complaints from the parents.

Yeah, I mean maybe if the OP wrote 'who else thinks the monday teacher of class 2b is a complete bitch! Join me at the gates with burning pitch forks at dawn if you want to sort her out!' then sure yeah, those screen shots aren't going to support her case with the head.

However if she wrote something like 'has anyone else's children's had concerns about Mondays. I'm just trying to sense check things before I speak to the school. Feel free to message me direct if you don't want to do it in the group chat' then another parent can screen shot all they want.

All you saying the parent shouldn't WhatsApp each other you are aware that is the 21sr century and it's a completely normal form of communication used by lots of different groups of people. I come from a family of teachers and have many teacher friends so I'm the first to defend them, it's often a shitty thankless job, and I'm specifically not a teacher due to growing up with them and seeing how hard it was.

But I've also been the victim of a teacher who was a bully and this idea that no teacher could do anything wrong and parents can't talk about it is damaging.

I do agree OP lots of separate contacts is better than a joint letter. You will then be painted as a ring leader and mounting a campaign and it'll detract from the issue at hand.

The thing with the WhatsApp group is that it's irrelevant what other parents say.

If the situation is that the OP's daughter is upset as badly as she claims, then she needs to speak to the school.

It could be that this teacher is awful. It could be that they have a different style and in a job share situation pupils have preferences. Either way, what matters is the OP's child is upset and that needs discussing. What other parents say about the teacher is irrelevant.

@CwmYoy
I am calm thanks.

And you haven't actually read what I wrote. She didn't tell or ask the kids to do any of these things. She shouted. She shouted at them for things they do as standard every other day of the week.

Im sorry but the amount of people who think a teacher can't possibly be wrong in any circumstances is wrong is crazy.

My dd sobbed about going to school for the sole reason of the teacher she had that day. Sobbed. My dd who actually loves school. I've brushed it off for the majority of the year as it's one day a week, but if they end up with this teacher next year I'm going to have an absolute nightmare getting her to school every day.

And yes the head condescendingly telling me off for using the word mean doesn't fill me with much confidence for how our discussion is going to go.

Thanks for those who gave advice- I will concentrate on my dd and the upset this is causing her and how they are going to address it.

Did she shout, though? Or did she speak loudly? Some teachers are louder than others.

You stirring the shit with other parents will have got the head's back up, understandably. Can't you see that?

I feel so sorry for the teachers having a bunch of parents bitching about them on SM. Unacceptable.

You sound nice. Poor teacher.

Even if she does shout, is that not allowed? Have you never shouted at your daughter, not once? perhaps when you had asked her to do something several times and she ignored you. In my day teachers used to shout smack and throw blackboard rubbers, yes of course that was wrong but now children can do no wrong and are so fragile they can't be shouted at. No wonder we end up with these entitled brats in the workplace. I wonder how schools retain any teachers at all.

I’d be asking the head if the senco has a one page profile/ agreed strategies in place for your daughter and if the Monday teacher is aware of it? This may be a source of anxiety.

Usually with a class share the teachers are given time to share information discuss planning etc but obviously this wouldn’t include teaching styles.

Older KS2 children can benefit from having more than one teacher in preparation for secondary. Builds resilience.
You are right to raise concerns if your daughter is upset consistently though.

On Mumsnet you are not allowed to criticise teachers and they never do anything wrong. You're certainly not allowed to assess if it might be a 'is it just my kid thing' by asking others opinion.

In reality there are a small number of teachers who are probably not enjoying their job anymore which comes out in their day to day interactions, aren't very good, or they are just arseholes, or all 3. Same as every job.

I'd have done the same as you, by asking other parents you've got a good idea that maybe its not just your kid being sensitive. Not sure why that's so controversial.

Good luck although in my experience even with glaring evidence e.g. a teacher being filmed screaming at DS's best mate for stammering when they were reading out loud the ranks close to protect the sacred teacher 🙄

Students are filming teachers?
I'd see you in court.
Not that I believe your story.

Yes it happens a lot i think. In my DS school and seen a few on YouTube or Tiktok where kids have filmed teachers, some are just plain shitty tbf. Did you not think this happens?

Not particularly bothered whether you believe it or not tbh. I wouldn't have believed it myself if I hadn't seen it.

I had this when I was at primary school. I clearly remember being terrified of my year 3 teacher who used to shout / snap and make mean comments in class all the time. I used to be so scared of school and had awful Sunday blues because of it. Good on you OP for standing your ground. Some people are not meant to be teachers. I heard this teacher is now head - truly terrifying.

Sorry just to be clear I meant some of the videos are plain shitty (as in why they have been filmed) not the teachers!

Why are you raising this now, at this time of the year? How many more Mondays are there until the end of term!

I think some of the points you raise are very petty, many teachers don’t like rubbing out because it is all too easy for kids to get a bit obsessive with having a “perfect” looking page of work, rather than the teacher being able to look at where they went wrong, how they dealt with it and what they need to understand to move forward. Some kids will end the lesson with barely anything written because they have rubbed out so much. I am fully with the Monday teacher on this.

“At least your head didn’t fall off” is the sort of
remark most teachers make to acknowledge that a child has tripped/ fallen, but doesn’t need first aid .

And some teachers are louder than others, and have more forceful voices, whether this is shouting is something no one can judge who isn’t in that classroom.

Go in and have a constructive and solution focussed talk with the head. Explain that your daughter is getting upset and you’re concerned. Keep it about your daughter. If other parents have concerns, they need to address this themselves.

As a teacher, I have nothing positive to say about parent WhatsApp groups and would hate to think what is written. Awful to think there are threads with opinions about how individuals are doing their jobs 🤮 No other professionals have to put up with this.

Some teachers are rubbish, and shouty. I say that as someone who works in a primary school. I've seen shouting at well-behaved children who are doing nothing wrong.
If terrible teachers are encouraged to leave by parents complaining- good!

If your daughter has been negatively impacted by this teacher for this academic year, I think I might have explored the reasons for it before the last half of the final term of the academic year.

If your child is in this teacher’s class next academic year, I think you need to meet and resolve any misunderstandings and differences of opinion, so that there’s a positive start in September.

This.

Many years ago I changed my dd's school because she did like her teacher. Then I found out that other parents had complained to the head, partly because said teacher was putting sticking plaster on the mouths of talkative children, and she had been removed.

The assumption by some people here that the other teacher is too soft is also shocking

My parents have a class WhatsApp group. The anxiety it causes me is horrible. Every bloody day I go over and above for children in my class, feeding them, clothing them, caring for them and all the time the witches covern is bitching about me behind my back ! My headteacher would wipe the floor with you.