Only 1 dc accepted at school

[FlamingoYellow]

I posted before about finding a school closer to my house for my 2 dcs. I had no luck with the closest school so applied for one 15 mins walk away. Eldest has been accepted, youngest hasn't. I'm not sure what to do now.

Their reason for not accepting youngest was that they would exceed statutory limits of 30 pupils per class, but I thought this was only for ks1?

If I accepted then I would only have to do school runs to 2 different schools for 1 year, then eldest dc could walk.

Youngest dc could possibly get an EHCP next school year, but I'm not sure at the moment whether his needs will be great enough. My understanding is that children with an EHCP should be given a place at the school they apply to? Also, I know applying for one is a long process and may not even be accepted.

Youngest dc's SALT recommended various things to help dc at school eg. lego club, etc. The current school doesn't offer these things. If the new school did then could I appeal based on that? Dc does not have a diagnosis of anything in particular, he just has various tings he needs extra help with. His current school made a referral for someone to assess his needs in class, but hey weren't sure how long it would take for this to happen.

My other concern is that dc2 hates his current school. He hasn't ever settled in there properly and although he has friends, they are quite superficial friendships. His older sibling has always been a big source of support to him and is the only person who can calm him down when he is struggling at school. So his dad and I are quite concerned about how he would cope if that support person was taken away.

On a more selfish note, it's been taking me 50 minutes to do the school run every morning this week and I'm exhausted from having to do that and work fulltime. If I got one of them into the closer school then it would be more stressful for, at most, a year, possibly less. If dc1 was already in the school then dc2 would be a higher priority to get a place.

You were all so helpful and so knowledgeable last time I posted. Please can you give me some advice on this?

Appeal. Your dc2 will be at top of waiting list if there is a sibling admissions rule.

Also, apologies if I made that sound like I wanted my child to get an EHCP to get him into a school! I hope you realise that not how I meant it! It's only over the past few months that it's become apparent that he needs extra support and at the moment no one is clear on what the problem actually is or what level of support he needs.

What reason can I give for appealing?

The main reason for appealing is always that prejudice to your child outweighs prejudice to the school. Cite things like his unhappiness at his current school, his need to be with his sibling, lack of support in his current school, the journey problem, and any other factors that make the school better for him, e.g. quieter environment, facilities that he needs, activities that he is good at.

OK thank you for explaining that. I didn't want to ask what the SEN provision was at the school because I was worried that they would be less likely to accept him if they knew he had SEN (at one point the school were considering accepting him even though it took them over numbers, so I didn't want to say anything that could make them less likely to want him at their school). It is a bigger school though, so I'm hoping this will mean they will have more SEN pupils and therefore more need to provide extra support.

How far away is the current school?

2.5 miles, but due to traffic it is currently taking me 50 minutes to do the school run in the morning.

Don't bother appealing it's stressful and sets you up against the school you want.
It shouldn't be class size unless there are classes that go between y2 to 3 for ypeg.
my appeal the y did make an error and say my secondary appeal was class size!

I didn't ge t anywhere even with gp referral for asd/adhd and letter from sen co and stuff from ed psych. And loads of other stuff about specific subjects and clubs, school having accepted appeals over 50%.

Yes I would move one dc there as you'll be higher up wait list.

That doesn't feel me with hope!

In what way did appealing set you up against the school you wanted? I know the school would have to pay for the appeal - did you feel like they weren't happy about your child joining the school after that?

Also, when you say it shouldn't be class size, do you mean my reason for appealing shouldn't be class size or their reason for not accepting him shouldn't be class size? It is a yr3/4 mix class, so no ks1 in it.

Can you ask where he is on the waiting list? There may be movement, he may get a place.

He is first on the waiting list. They said there is normally some movement with children leaving and joining during July and August.

However he has been top of the waiting list at another local school for over a year now, so I don't know whether that means much 🤦‍♀️.

Y3/y4 shouldnt be infant class size to refuse.
It should be that it would cause prejudice.
On my appeal the LA solicitor 'accidentally' put infant class size, which are almost impossible and wonder if it put other appellants off.
Basically at appeal you are trying to pull apart their case as being full so their figures numbers on roll etc etc. And then the school rep does the same back to you.
For primary you would need a strong case. But i guess it being a mixed year group could help?

If you are a long way away could you get fair access protocol??

You have to appeal it and in the mean time try and get them both into another school. It's what I did and they got into a school 5 mins away from my house and I. Glad they did because it's a really nice school as it happens

There are 3 primaries nearby - I have applied to 2 of them and neither has spaces for youngest dc. The 3rd one is also 15 mins walk away but it as reputation for being a bit rough, and youngest child is very sensitive and one of those kids that just seems a target for the more aggressive kids, so I really don't like the idea of him going there. This is what I mean about his older sibling being such a big support for him - dc2 has been punched 3 times at school this year and every time it is dc1 who looks after him and finds a teacher.

Thank you for explaining. What is a fair access protocol?

I present for schools in appeals. I would advise you appeal and give them the reasons that centre around your child. Leave out the bits about travel and focus on your child's needs. I would say that he is not settled at his current school which means he isn't learning and that he needs a fresh start, which will help him progress, particularly if he is in his own community.

The fact that the schools pay is of no consequence - you have a better reason than most people who appeal. Good luck

Thank you for your reply Charmatt, that's really helpful. I've read through every bit of info on the school's website and they offer all the SEN support that DS's SALT recommended, which his current school does not offer, so I'm going to ask the SALT if she will write a letter to say that in her opinion this school will benefit DS.

Class teachers neither know nor care which children got in via an appeal. It really makes no difference to how children are treated.

This is very reassuring. I was worried about them all hating me 😳

The addmissions do not take it so seriously when you say “I want this school because of the facilities or because its better or bigger etc”. My sister made an appeal last year. They moved different area and both of her daughters had place in different school and they were school next to their home (2 mins walk) and non of them got in there so she decided to appeal. She said “I have no support from anyone, I am working full time and they need to be in the same school otherwise I can not mange to do it” and 4 days later her 2 daughters got the place in the same school (closest school to their place).

Thanks @diadiadia that's good to know that that works at appeal sometime. I will definitely say something similar.

@FlamingoYellow if you dont have/cantdrive car mention that as well also if you need to travel to your work by train x

Thanks. I do drive - I actually learnt for this very reason as the school run on the bus was taking me 2.5hrs!

I do a mix of working from home and the office, but my office is 5 mins drive away from my house (in the opposite direction from school) so office days are a bit of a nightmare logistically! It will be nice when I don't have to worry about that anymore.

I would definitely appeal. Explain about SALT recommendations. It could be that the class size is limited by the actual size of the classroom. If a classroom only has room for thirty chairs and fifteen tables, trying to add an extra table is an issue. Whilst an EHCP naming a specific school can get around this, a school is actually allowed to appeal for reasons of physical space rather than student numbers.

NB: most classrooms are set up for 32 or 34 students but some do only have five tables of six chairs. Four tables of six and one of eight is usually doable though so do ask why it's limited to 30.

Sorry to hijack your post OP, but we are desperate for our daughter to go to a school slightly outside our catchment area. For the admissions a year after her they’re removing the catchment criteria. They’ve only been open four years in January so don’t currently even have years 4, 5 & 6, they’ve been rated outstanding and we’re just in love with the school and their ethos. Their bakues really align with the way we parent. We’re going to put her in their nursery part time as they get slightly further up the admissions criteria, but I’m already prepping to appeal if necessary. They’ve been oversubscribed since they opened but they’re getting another reception class this year so it will be 60 spaces up from 30.

Can I ask if @Charmatt if you have any specific advice on appeals? I know it may not and I sincerely hope that it won’t come to it, but I’m going in absolutely blind with my first child who I obviously want the best for, and to hear from someone who has experience on the schools side would be invaluable and much appreciated.