Wait list and admission if schools expands

[Anonymousmumof1]

Hello newbie here , I'll keep this short and sweet , my daughter is suppose to start reception this year 2023 summer born 4 next month , didn't get any of my prefernces ( won't go into that but various reasons I rejected the school and yes I'm fully aware of the consequences So she's on the waiting lists for 3 schools , i don't think she will get a reception place as all 3 are one form entry 30 pan , however the council are expanding one of them due to be completed next Sept, i live 0.28 from it the last person offered a place was 0.26 , when they've expanded will she get offered a place from the wait list or do the go by the whole applying process again , they are expanding the pan for all classes so reception to year 6 , just wondered how it would work , I have no idea when the lists clear they can't issue a position yet as there sorting out waiting lists and late applications, they were nice enough to let me add a new school on and change preferences around , I guess more and more children are being born the population was smaller here and its around 19,000 now and lots siblings.

So just wondering if anyone has been in same situation with a expanding school whilst on the wait list thanks :)

Was meant to say would she get the place for y1 by then if nothing from reception becomes available

. At some point during the course of reception year, many schools clear waiting lists. You are then making an in year application

Are you completely sure they are adding capacity all the way through at once?

It’s more common for a new class to be created at reception and then a new class added to reception each year - otherwise the created classes in non reception years wouldn’t be full.

Hi , this is what I could find on it all I know is that it's definitely being expanded and due to be completed by 1st Sept 2024 , it's all new to me so I havent a clue on when the list close my admission team said 23/24 but then haven't replied on what I do after that , im guessing the end of Dec 2023 I apply for in year admission .however here's the expansion info I found...

The school currently has a Planned Admission Number (PAN) of 30 and a net capacity of 240 places for children in Reception to Year 6. This is made up of 210 permanent places and 30 temporary ‘bulge class’ places, currently in Year 5.
We are proposing to expand the school by 210 permanent places. The enlarged school would have a PAN of 60 and offer a total of 420 permanent places.
As part of this enlargement, the adjacent area of education reserve land currently being used informally by the school will be added permanently to the school site to enlarge it. The enlargement building works required would be subject to a separate public consultation as part of the planning application process.

This has now been confirmed and will be completed by 1st Sept 2024

I think it depends.

When DD's primary expanded it took 7 years as they only expanded from yR and
then the single form year groups stayed as such until they left.

However if they think there is sufficient local demand they could consider mixed age groups for other years and so expand them too, but it might be risky because if they end up with class sizes averaging say 24 they'll be paying for more teachers than they are really receiving income for.

I would not see that as definite confirmation that the new classes will all open in sep 2024. More that the building work will finish then.

It's very unlikely that it will attempt an expansion across all years simultaneously - the expansion will have been driven by a forecasted need in the local area for more spaces over the next few years, not in current years - any expansions in upper years would come at the expense of other local schools, which would not generally be allowed under the expansion conditions. Also as Teen says, the financing wouldn't work unless all the new classes were full or mostly full, which won't happen.

So I don't think it will mean any more spaces in the year you need I'm afraid.

I've only ever known one school expand all years at once, and it was due to a massive new housing estate being built nearby.
DC's school took 7 years to expand as they just added an extra reception class each year. After about 2-3 years they had the extra classrooms as it made sense to build them at once.
They're actually having the opposite issue now that with the falling birth rate they may drop back down and then have all this space they don't need.

They normally phase it through . So next year's reception becomes 60 and the intake each year after. Otherwise they are relying on in year transfers from other schools which are unlikely to be thirty in each year group. Bear in mind they also need to increase the number of teachers/ta for each additional class.

That reads to me that either the consultation or the planning application will be competed by Sep 2024. I think it would be very, very unusual to have consultation done, planning started and approved AND school buildings finished, that are big enough to house essentially 7 new classes plus toilets and playground, completed in the next 16 months.

Best you can hope for, in my non-expert opinion, is that they put in a temporary classroom for your daughters required year group in the interim (but this would mean expanding one year at a time, not all at once). Although more likely is you could get an in-year admission if someone (or several someones) leave your required year group, either 23-24 academic year or 24-25.

Even if the building works are completed by next September and they have 7 additional classrooms, it is highly unlikely they will immediately try to admit 30 more pupils to each year. That would only be possible if there were enough people on the waiting list for each year to make an additional class viable. Given that an additional class needs an additional teacher, they can't open a class with only a handful of pupils.

If they do immediately add a second Y1 class, it will be filled with people from the waiting list using the normal admission criteria. But I'm afraid I don't think it will happen.

Thanks all for the replies guess I'm just holding on for hope that she would have got in next year, the school is always oversubscribed now , the area I'm in is a small town but it's gained so many new homes being built that its effected The schools , there is only 4 primary schools here and 2 secondary , just says that by next year there expecting from birth stats over 300+ applications and nowhere near enough spaces available , and that year after year expecting it to go higher so there wont be enough places if they dont expand now .we did only have 3 primary schools they built a small one when new houses were built next to it and now that's heavily oversubscribed , there was alot turned down for places , was hoping they'd expand the reception and year 1 so that she might get squeezed in with any other kids that might still be waiting for a place by then .

Most kids won’t be waiting for a place in year 1, though, they will have started somewhere else for reception.

True , im grasping at straws .... so I think by the email I got earlier it seems the schools I'm on the waiting list for hold the lists until Dec 2023 and then I'm guessing I use the councils admissions portal to apply for in year admissions , I think one of the schools may hold there own after the Dec date so I assume I need to contact that one direct , does this sound correct ? Sorry all new to me amd just want to make sure I keep her on the lists incase anything pops up future wise.
Thanks

Is your plan to home ed until you get a place?

I know the school you mean. There is a reference in one of the school newsletters to looking forward to welcoming 60 into Reception in Sept 2024 which I took to mean, since they don't say anything else, that they are expanding from the bottom up like most schools do.

If she is summer born you could keep her back a year and reapply for that year in Reception? But honestly I think you would have to look at your child and be sure it was the right decision for her, not just to get the school you want.

What is your place on the waiting list?

Sorry have reread and see you don't know waiting list place yet but that's I would have thought your most likely chance.

As pp said, it is likely that it will be 60!in reception from Sept 24 with no changes to the PAN of other years.

The most important factor at primary is the home environment. So unless your alternative is truly terrible your child will be fine wherever they go.

Admissions authorities must keep a waiting list until at least the end of the first term of a regular admission point. So in this case it would be end of autumn term. It's up to them what they do then and how in terms of keeping and administering a list. Many will get the local authority to do it, but equally many don't so you would need to check each school.

I would not be holding a child out of school.in the hope that they get a place the following year on the basis of expansion. It is hard for kids to go into an established class when the first start school. I'd take a serious look at your options for a Sept 23 place, or hold her out till Sept '24 but be prepared for the same issue again. And also if you delay you will have to contend with the system wanting to catch her up before secondary. You can refuse this but it isn't simple.

It would be highly unusual for a school to expand from 1FE to 2FE throughout at one time, As others have mentioned, schools tend to expand from R up or perhaps have some mixed age classes as they build to full capacity. It would also depend on whether the local authority is financially underwriting the expansion to guarantee funding, so the school could employ extra teachers etc. in anticipation of growth.

It seems you are considering a delayed admission to Reception in AY 23/24 rather than deferring entry to R in 24/25. Both could be pretty risky. If the oversubscription criteria gives preferences to siblings your DD could miss out again. Have you thought about starting her at a non preferred primary and moving her when a place becomes available? Lots of people think by turning down a place their children will get automatic priority for a preferred school, it doesn’t work like that. Remember people move all the time and the LA has to ensure they offer a place.

Most importantly, what are your plans to educate your daughter if you have turned down the offered place and are not sending her to school?