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Primary education

Join our Primary Education forum to discuss starting school and helping your child get the most out of it.

Managing school strikes

198 replies

mamnotmum · 21/04/2023 12:28

Just had an email from school to say they are shut next Thursday for strikes and will update us soon about a strike on 2 May.

It's not that I don't support the teachers but there is no way my employer is going to give me a day off with less than a weeks notice (paid or unpaid) and I can not work from home/bring my child to work.

I realise some people have grandparents / friends but is anyone else finding it increasingly difficult to manage?

OP posts:
TheCrystalPalace · 22/04/2023 11:57

Absolutely.
Many parents simply have no idea. As a pp said, schools do a sterling job of smiling through the chaos and presenting as if everything's great. There's a flip side to that, as evidenced when Government lockdowns blew the curtain back and parents got a glimpse of, for one, the glaring inequalities in IT provision. Some schools were able to slip smoothly into online learning as they had the hardware and techie know-how, as well as being able to provide laptops for all the kids (not to mention the staff). Other schools had woeful equipment and minimal training and had a massive challenge to catch up.

RedToothBrush · 22/04/2023 12:05

I have a class of 30 with around 9 children with some kind of SEN. Being honest on top of teaching, I can't meet all their needs all the time. I'm trying my best and I wouldn't say they're being 'failed', but they certainly could be getting more support. I'm only one person unfortunately and I also have to juggle a handful of children who are exceptional and need extending way beyond their year group level. Did I also mention I have two year groups in my class?

I think there are 9 or 10 in DSs class who have some kind of SEN.

It ranges from DS who is likely ADHD but exceptional, a child likely autistic & ODD, a child who is significantly behind in emotional and academic ability currently no full diagnosis but ADHD identified. Three definitely with dyslexia. One with anxiety issues and under CAHMS (likely autism but not meeting referral thresholds at this time). That's seven I know about for sure as a parent - not even as a teacher.

Then there is another one who I strongly suspect is ADHD but again likely not reaching thresholds. Several who I am incredibly surprised as to how far behind they are - whether that's SEN related or COVID I don't know. And two who are working on at exceptional level and also have pushy parents.

That's a 'good school' in a 'good area'.

I know the class really well. Probably more than all the other parents as I've helped out a lot. I don't think most of the other parents are aware.

None of this sounds 'out there'.

It is frightening.

RedToothBrush · 22/04/2023 12:18

raincamepouringdown · 22/04/2023 09:10

The 'offer' requires all payrises to be funded from existing school budgets, which means LESS resources and MORE REDUNDANCIES for support staff ... which is detrimental for the children in the school.

Our primary school is on its knees and we desperately need more TAs, but we can't afford them now. Insisting any and all payrises come from existing budgets means more TAs will be let go.

I think this is the bit that people don't get most.

Even if the payrise is approved, the budget it comes from matters.

It's coming from the existing school budget not new funds from government.

That's why it will impact kids more. At a time they need additional funding due to COVID gaps in education and Sen needs being more complex due to delayed diagnosis.

The three kids with the biggest SEN needs in DSs class are probably 12 months behind (minimum) where they should be in terms of referral/diagnosis. That affects how much the school gets in turn. It's a 'cash flow' issue in terms of demand to supply for SEN money in this sense.

The difference with the year above is pretty noticeable from this point of view too.

Even if the teachers don't strike, things are going to get a huge amount worse. DSs school is 'nice' so likely to be able to recruit better than elsewhere but it's clear they are going to start struggling with that soon.

The level of violent behaviour is going to go up as a result. It's become so normalised in some classes it's inevitable with so many unmet needs. That spells catastrophe and potentially worse in the future than struggling with child care now.

It's that awful.

MrsHamlet · 22/04/2023 12:24

We have a student in y9 who attacked his TA in y6, sufficient that she had to go to A&E. We are still trying to get him into AP... but there isn't any.
He's always been a danger to himself and others, and now he's much bigger. He's impossible to manage in a classroom, and is a runner and scaler of walls.

RedToothBrush · 22/04/2023 12:27

Okunevo · 21/04/2023 21:43

I didn't realise it would be classed as covering to take a different class instead, as the school is still down the same number of teachers and is sending the same number of children home. It just doesn't seem right that one group of children are sent home over and over again while another doesn't miss a day.

It's not a viable option.

DSs class were taught by the other class teacher last year - so she knows them but she doesn't know where they are at.

Covering a class for the day would require the striking teacher to tell her where exactly they are at and what they need to do - which is work for her - otherwise she could be doing something that doesn't match where they are at or they've already done.

DSs class got substitute teachers for a while during COVID as their teacher went off sick (she was pregnant) and I can't say they learnt anything much at all.

All it becomes is babysitting the class, to help out parents. And it's effectively crossing a picket line if they do that.

The 'unfairness' of it, is unfortunately part of the point of the strike.

It sucks.

hay5689 · 22/04/2023 12:32

PotteringAlonggotkickedoutandhadtoreregister · 21/04/2023 17:46

@ticktickticktickBOOM If they offered me that I would rip their arm off! I hope it’s not too disruptive to year 11 and year 13 when I want to be off during their exams though for the much cheaper holidays I can now embrace…

You can only embrace them if they are authorised. So many people think annual leave is a given right and they can take it wherever they choose but that's simply not true. I'd fully support teachers getting paid more if they worked the full year with a standard 5 weeks leave. I suspect not many teachers would be keen to be back in work the day after Boxing Day though but maybe I'm wrong........

noblegiraffe · 22/04/2023 12:35

"Standard 5 weeks leave"

If you're getting only 5 weeks leave, you're not actually getting the minimum legal entitlement, let alone the 'standard'.

cantkeepawayforever · 22/04/2023 12:41

On the leave - I presume that school terms for children would remain the same? So ‘back to work on 27th December’ would be preparation for the following term rather than in-class teaching? Yes, that’s quite normal, especially when Christmas falls such that children return to class on 2nd January .

noblegiraffe · 22/04/2023 13:03

There's a flip side to that, as evidenced when Government lockdowns blew the curtain back and parents got a glimpse of, for one, the glaring inequalities in IT provision.

I talked about this at the time. Parents on MN were absolutely furious about the inequality in education provision (and rightly so), with private schools providing all this online learning, the school down the road sending out loads of resources, and how their kid was just getting a twinkl worksheet emailed weekly because their teacher was crap.

That inequality in education hasn't gone away, and it's got worse. Why is it right that my Y11s have got me, an experienced teacher who is rarely absent, and yet other Y11s have various supply teachers who don't know what they are doing? There are loads of Y11s in that position for various subjects. Where is the parental fury? The outraged threads? The demands for better?

RedToothBrush · 22/04/2023 13:09

noblegiraffe · 22/04/2023 13:03

There's a flip side to that, as evidenced when Government lockdowns blew the curtain back and parents got a glimpse of, for one, the glaring inequalities in IT provision.

I talked about this at the time. Parents on MN were absolutely furious about the inequality in education provision (and rightly so), with private schools providing all this online learning, the school down the road sending out loads of resources, and how their kid was just getting a twinkl worksheet emailed weekly because their teacher was crap.

That inequality in education hasn't gone away, and it's got worse. Why is it right that my Y11s have got me, an experienced teacher who is rarely absent, and yet other Y11s have various supply teachers who don't know what they are doing? There are loads of Y11s in that position for various subjects. Where is the parental fury? The outraged threads? The demands for better?

Parents are more concerned about the baby sitting service.

TheCrystalPalace · 22/04/2023 13:14

I presume @noblegiraffe, because they don't know about it. I mean, it's hardly likely that the SLT are sending out newsletters saying, "Oh sorry that form such and such haven't got a maths teacher again this term. Hang in there, folks."

TheBitchOfTheVicar · 22/04/2023 13:15

@mamnotmum I completely agree teachers are overworked. Underpaid I'm not sure (they know the salary before training/starting the job and still choose to do it)

That's all very well, but what about when pay rises don't happen or are always less than inflation? As teachers' pay has been for years. That isn't knowable at the point of training. Because of this, what about when life on a teacher's salary become untenable, especially for a single or lone parent?

As it happens, I think I'm paid a reasonable salary - but thinking about it, this is me thinking it is reasonable for my needs. And my needs are that I have a similarly earning husband, a small mortgage and kids almost through the school system. If I think about the needs of newer and younger teachers - not so much.

noblegiraffe · 22/04/2023 13:16

TheCrystalPalace · 22/04/2023 13:14

I presume @noblegiraffe, because they don't know about it. I mean, it's hardly likely that the SLT are sending out newsletters saying, "Oh sorry that form such and such haven't got a maths teacher again this term. Hang in there, folks."

Parents on MN seem to be very involved in e.g. their Y11 child's revision, so you think they'd be aware that their kid doesn't actually have a teacher without being told.

Macaroni46 · 22/04/2023 13:35

Disneyblueeyes · 22/04/2023 09:59

I'm a primary school teacher. This year we've had a reduction in TA hours. Basically the TA hours we had for interventions for SEN pupils have disappeared. So now no support for them.
I have a class of 30 with around 9 children with some kind of SEN. Being honest on top of teaching, I can't meet all their needs all the time. I'm trying my best and I wouldn't say they're being 'failed', but they certainly could be getting more support. I'm only one person unfortunately and I also have to juggle a handful of children who are exceptional and need extending way beyond their year group level. Did I also mention I have two year groups in my class?

We are striking because we're unhappy. Pay isn't great in real-terms. But it's much, much more than pay.
The government don't seem to want to listen either. Our Ed Sec has said the pay rise would be funded. For some reason she doesn't seem to know the difference between fully funded or funded from school budgets, and the problem with the latter.
Not to mention the fact the government have been very ignorant to the wider issues in education. They know it's not just about pay, yet their recent proposals alongside the 5% offer (not funded) was to set up some kind of 'trust' to help deal with workload. Right.

What we need is bigger school budgets, much bigger which will cover the TA hours schools desperately need.
We need wider services to be better funded.
I have a child who self-harms who has an 8 week wait to see CAHMs, which is a complete disgrace of a service. In the meantime, we are expected to 'support' her. I can maybe do this for 5 minutes during Monday assembly, because I have no TA to help and neither of us are trained in dealing with serious mental health issues.
In fact, my own mental health is pretty poor and I don't know how to help myself sometimes.

My colleague recently was crying in the toilet because she spent hours reading over dyslexia paperwork from a private assessment a child's parent had paid alot of money for (because we don't have the money or resources to do it now), given all this stuff to use in class, but because she didn't implement it straight away (because she was trying to get her head round it), the parent complained very nastily.

Sorry long post, but this is the reality of the job at the moment.
We are juggling too many plates. We need more TAs, more support from wider services, and yes, more money for what we kill ourselves doing every day would be nice too, especially since we get paid far less for the MORE work we're doing now, compared to 10 years ago. It's a kick in the teeth.

Thanks for reading.

Exactly this. We feel like we're failing all the children as whilst we know how to meet all the varying needs in the class, we simply can't due to lack of time and human resource. This causes me stress and distresses me.
The curriculum is also completely unfit for purpose (thanks Michael!) and there is no way everything that needs to be covered can fit into the hours of a school day. This again causes me stress and a moral dilemma. Do I provide a curriculum for my pupils that I know is suited to their age and needs or do I try to implement Gove's monstrosity? This plays on my mind deeply.
In answer to the poster who said teachers know about the pay before they qualify. I trained in the 1980s and have been teaching in various guises ever since. The workload has gone up and the pay in real times has gone down. So to be blunt, you can F'off with that comment!

Macaroni46 · 22/04/2023 13:41

@Okunevo
"I didn't realise it would be classed as covering to take a different class instead, as the school is still down the same number of teachers and is sending the same number of children home. It just doesn't seem right that one group of children are sent home over and over again while another doesn't miss a day."
If I'm not striking, I don't want the hassle of teaching a class I don't know. That's more work for me and the striking teacher. I'll stick to my own class tank you.

Maximo2 · 22/04/2023 13:42

Exactly this. I can not stand how inadequate I feel on a daily basis.

TheCrystalPalace · 22/04/2023 13:45

YES to the unsuitable curriculum demands! I am meant to be teaching 8 year olds about the concurrency of ancient civilisations this week.
Dull, dull, dull.

thesmee · 22/04/2023 20:48

hay5689 · 22/04/2023 12:32

You can only embrace them if they are authorised. So many people think annual leave is a given right and they can take it wherever they choose but that's simply not true. I'd fully support teachers getting paid more if they worked the full year with a standard 5 weeks leave. I suspect not many teachers would be keen to be back in work the day after Boxing Day though but maybe I'm wrong........

Sigh, I know this is pointed out again and again but you know many teachers have worked in other industries right? And are married to people in other industries? Plenty of us know the realities of 5 weeks annual leave thanks and in some places the scramble to book it when the system opens, and it being refused anyway. Part of what I also remember is the cheap skiing holidays and being able to go to friends' term time weddings. Teachers being off on 27th Dec (when let's me honest, many other jobs make people take AL anyway as they're shut) isn't going to keep them in education if the rest of the T&Cs have been eroded.

timetorefresh · 23/04/2023 17:38

TheCrystalPalace · 22/04/2023 13:14

I presume @noblegiraffe, because they don't know about it. I mean, it's hardly likely that the SLT are sending out newsletters saying, "Oh sorry that form such and such haven't got a maths teacher again this term. Hang in there, folks."

I work in the school my daughter attends. It had completely passed me by that two of her teachers had been off sick for months. It's a massive school and they're not teachers I generally see around. She hadn't mentioned the fact she had supply every week. It was only when I realised and asked that we found out.

user1477391263 · 24/04/2023 00:50

Would it not be better to channel money into creating and running actual special ed schools for kids who can’t cope in mainstream, rather than trying include everyone in mainstream and saying “we’ll pay teachers more to cope with the disastrous results”?

RedToothBrush · 24/04/2023 08:09

user1477391263 · 24/04/2023 00:50

Would it not be better to channel money into creating and running actual special ed schools for kids who can’t cope in mainstream, rather than trying include everyone in mainstream and saying “we’ll pay teachers more to cope with the disastrous results”?

Potentially yes. I think a lot of teachers would actively support the idea because of the difference it would make to their classrooms.

However they aren't allowed to strike for that reason.

Many aren't necessarily striking purely from the pay from conversations I've had and from what I've read in the press. It's about how the system is broken and the demands inadequate funding is putting in teachers in terms of working conditions.

That's why the whole thing is a farce and why I'm not inclined to get sucked into the 'selfish greedy teacher' narrative.

user1477391263 · 24/04/2023 09:14

noblegiraffe · 22/04/2023 10:23

When I see threads on MN now saying 'I can afford private school, should I send my kid there or stick with state' and see posters piling in to tell parents that a good state school is just as good as private, I think "bloody hell, you have got to be kidding". Private school funding now vastly outstrips state school funding in a way it didn't previously.

When I've talked to the kids in school about the strikes, they'll go on about 'greedy teachers' or whatever and I'll ask them if they're happy with the state of the school and their education and they'll look round at the broken blinds, desks held together with chewing gum and start talking about how many cover lessons they have and that their teachers keep leaving.

I don't think parents quite get it.

Honestly, though, private schools have it easier because (other than those schools that actually do focus on SEN as their raison d'etre) they mostly exclude difficult kids and kids with difficult parents. It's not like if you funded state schools to the same level they'd be able to get the same results!

My child's private school costs about 5.9 thousand a year for secondary (I am not in the UK, but am in a wealthy developed country where things cost about as much as they do in the UK). When a school does not have to deal with lots of social issues, you can actually offer decent education at quite reasonable prices!

Up to now, there has been little demand for affordable private education in the UK, because until the wheels started to fall off the cart, the general feeling was that "decent state schools are OK, so if you have a reasonable amount of money - but not a king's ransom - to put towards your child's education, you buy a house in the area of good state schools and get some tutoring in." Perhaps if the situation in state schools starts to deteriorate going forward, we will start to see more demand for affordable private schools that basically look like a nice well-functioning state school (similar facilities and class sizes, but everything works, there is a trained teacher for every subject, and minimal disruption). Or maybe not, due to COL and the need to put money into private pensions and offspring's housing deposits.

All in all, I'm starting to feel quite glad we made our future outside the UK, but do feel sorry for teachers and for decent, caring parents who do live there and are having to deal with these choices.

Loveyou3000 · 25/04/2023 17:21

DD's been off for every single strike day and a few of the days I've not found anyone to watch her so has called into question my reliability at work. My child's father is otherwise indisposed at His Majesty's Pleasure for the foreseeable so my income alone is keeping us afloat, I'm missing several days' pay and I'm not allowed Thursday off so no clue what I am going to do. I've ended up applying to move DD's school because other schools in the area have provisions for the children affected by the strikes who have nowhere else to go on those days or are vulnerable. I'm just waiting to lose my job, really.
Yes they are 'supposed' to give you parental leave if you need it but it doesn't always work out that way. Wouldn't be financially able to fight a dismissal even if I had the emotional energy. I work for a law firm I'd hardly win that one.

My mum is a teacher, and isn't striking, hence me having no alternatives. I empathise but I'm also panicking about my life now.

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