School play....why do auditions???

[Schoolmum2468]

It's school play season AGAIN...and again the same old story happening again. (3x DC...always the same story)

I told DH weeks ago when we found out the play who would be given which parts. And low and behold....I was correct.

And my DC has come home in tears because they weren't given any of the parts they auditioned for. Even the extra part the teacher asked them to audition for

The child who told mine not to bother going for part A because it was their part...yup got the part

The pushy parents child got the main part (AGAIN!!!)

"Shy" children who have now come out of their shells now they're the eldest in the school.... literally background scenery.

My DC's friend is also upset because they wanted a speaking part and got 1 short line "no way" type of thing

My DC wanted an acting part and got narrator (again). They've been told in the past that it's because they're a good reader....but now in yr6 after years of being narrator (both in end of year plays and Xmas nativities) they thought for the last play in primary they would try really hard to get an acting part.

So what is the point of asking children which part they want and going through auditions if teachers are going to ignore all that and just chose who they want.

And why not give other children a little bit of a chance in the spotlight if they want it. Chances are the shyer ones are going to be even more lost in secondary and this may be their last chance. It's a school play....why not add lines for children who want them. It's primary school not a theatre production!!!

If any teachers can explain why they do this year upon year....please enlighten me.

@TulipsAndDaisiesAndBlossom where in that persons post did you read that parents of those kids volunteered? Even so, should children with no positive role models be disadvantaged? Those who just aren't as confident? Flippin heck some parents on here make me want to weep.

How do you know that the teacher didn't give out the parts based on who was best at the auditions?

Which may well have been the children who were best at the auditions last year. Who may well be the children who are the best performers in the school overall, which doesn't really change each year.

Kind of like how it works in real life with acting parts and auditions and the good and/or popular actors getting good parts repeatedly.

I know there may be 30 parents all wanting their kids to have the main part every year, and just swap it round each year to be fair. Because it's 'just school' so everyone should have a turn. Even though the sports teams and the maths team and the every other part of school doesn't work like that. (Actually, one does: star of the week, where every child gets a turn so actually it ends up being worth nothing). And no part of real life work likes that. But little jonny should be put up on stage because he auditioned and hasn't had the chance before... And then parents complain in the WhatsApp groups that the school play was shit this year, even though teachers have volunteered double the time to put it on as they had to work twice as hard with a cast of kids who weren't the best for the roles.

If your child really has a passion for having a main role, why not do stage school outside of school?

I said nothing about parents being volunteers.

Honestly, if I was that year 6 teacher working my ass off right now at sats time, and got a message asking to discuss parts in a play that parents weren't happy with, I think I'd just say 'fuck this', work to rule, teach my class and cancel the end of year play.

We have auditions at my school. We already know which children are helpful in class and those whose behaviour is not acceptable. We know which children have performed well in previous assemblies or school plays.
We mostly don’t know what after school activities they do. If a child does do drama outside of school it is unlikely we have seen them in one of those performances to know how good they are.
We ask who wants a big, medium or small part. Who would like to sing a solo, have lots of lines, one line or no lines.
We ask those who want a big or medium part to audition.
We allocate parts on the child’s preferences, auditions and the year group (older years get bigger parts). We never, ever allocate parts on the basis of what their parents job is or if they volunteer at school. If a child has performed well in the past we will generally take that into account. Every child who wants to will get to go up and be seen on stage.
Very often we get parents complaining (parents rarely support teachers any more, hence the big shortage of teachers - it’s now an unrewarding job as it’s constant petty complaints) that their child didn’t get a big part but frequently that’s because their child said didn’t want one. What they say to the teacher and what they say in front of their friends is often different to what they tell their parents.

That’s why I said I was guessing - you left it vague. What do you mean by “certain parents” then? I think my guess was reasonable from the information given. Perhaps you should be more specific.

If the teacher bothered to take 5 minutes to call (maybe the 5minutes it took to write the message) she would know I wasn't asking for the part recasting, I would be informing her that one of her pupils came out of school in floods of tears and maybe she could have a word and explain the reasoning for that part being given.

Do teachers not care that a child has got really upset whilst in THEIR care?

Dd2 was year 6 in 2020 that cohort got NOTHING - no play no disco no assembly so frankly just enjoy what you have!

They are saying they won’t usually give MAIN parts to those who freeze or can’t learn their lines. It’s not going to a very pleasant experience for those children if they are given a main part. It’s not helpful to them. They can develop their confidence with smaller parts.
We had 2 children who asked to audition last week start sobbing, as when it came down to it they did want a main part, they had just been told to audition by their parents.
Honestly I wish some parents would leave teachers to do their job. They have NO idea of the reality of working in a classroom.

I said I was “guessing” because she talked about “certain parents”. Often on MN that phrase is used to describe the parents who volunteer.
No child is disadvantaged by not having positive role models - their parents position has absolutely no part in what role a child is allocated as I mentioned in my post.
Those children who aren’t as confident can audition for a main part if they want to and will get a part if they are good.
Removing all competition in school doesn’t do the child any favours. School plays are often a chance for children who aren’t academic to shine.

I left it vague because I was making a point about auditions and how roles are allocated, not about parents.
Your guess was not reasonable given the information provided. I hope you dont teach verbal reasoning.

However, so you can pick holes in it, by certain parents (at our school) it meant the parents who socialise with staff and/or are friends on social media and/or hog the door and have to speak to a teacher before all the children have been allowed to leave and/or set up a tripod and record the entire show, despite there being a safeguarding rule that photos and recordings are not permitted.

And even if this was about volunteering (for the record in addition to my fulltime job I probably do about 20 hrs in the community every week) why would a teacher reward any child for what their parents do? Is that why you require me to be specific?

Yes, this is my experience too.
I've seen children audition having not bothered to learn the lines, and then be surprised they didn't get a bigger part. I've seen children say they didn't want a speaking part complaining later. I've seen children asking for a dancing/singing part but also wanting a major speaking part. And every single year parents complain.
We try so hard to make it fair, we rewrite plays to spread out the lines more fairly, add in extra parts for pupils to showcase their talents, split the cast in 2 so that Part A major starring role is played by different children for different acts in order to give more children opportunities, we ask children what part they want, what their second choice is and do our best to be fair to all of them. But most of the bigger parts will go to reliable, well- behaved children who are prepared to learn their lines and who therefore do a good job at the audition. It's not fair to give big parts to the kids who disrupt other children's learning, who think they can just breeze in, and talk through other people rehearsing, who are frequently off school and may or may not turn up for the actual performances.
I'm sorry if people's children are overlooked, most teachers try really hard not to do that, and I have never seen a school play cast favouring the children of PTA members, governors or teachers. If that does happen that's clearly wrong, but if those children are hard working and talented, then maybe they might be the best person for the role.

@TulipsAndDaisiesAndBlossom "Those children who aren’t as confident can audition for a main part if they want to and will get a part if they are good."

Why does a primary aged child need to be good to get a role in their class play? How do they become good? If being good is the requirement than that's obviously going to only include those kids who have experience and probably do it outside of school. Your reasoning is bizarre. You're running a primary class play, not a west end show. Parents go there to see their kids and they know they're watching a bunch of 10 year olds.

Do you genuinely not see an issue with the fact in OPs case, her child who is obviously good enough to be a narrator, doesn't even get the smallest acting part he desperately wanted? Said child was asked by the teacher to audition for a role, getting their hopes up, and still didn't get it. That's just horrible. These are 10/11 years olds who just want to have fun with their mates on a stage for the last time. You're making it sound like its the last cut of an Andrew Webber musical. I'm a teacher, albeit not acting, and I cannot understand your reasoning.

@DelphiniumBlue That all makes sense but the Ops son has the part of a narrator and he just wanted an acting part, however small. Narrator is not a part you give to a child that misbehaves so I don't think what you've said is relevant. I does sound like you and @TulipsAndDaisiesAndBlossom try really hard to make it fair, which sounds like it's a lot of work and sounds quite different to the setup and situation OP has described.

This was an independent school. It was the class prize judged by the teacher, the same teacher standing right next to the child when he said his grandma made it. Generally, there were numerous instances of preferential treatment for children of teachers and people with large families at the school. The whole management team has changed now.

I work in year 6 and have said this before on here - we don't know/remember/care who did what in previous years. We audition and give the main roles to the children that do the best auditions, also taking into account general behaviour and attitude throughout the year, so no child will be rewarded with a starring role if they've been a PITA all year, but otherwise it's down to the audition. We love it if a normally quiet, unassuming child blows us away with their performance and it's brilliant to see someone come out of their shell and surprise everyone.
The children are asked if they would prefer a speaking part, a lot of lines, a couple of lines etc., but often they will say they'd like a main part and then go on to do an audition that is practically inaudible with barely any acting, so they get given just a few words.
Also we neither know, nor care whose parents are involved with the PTA and so that has zero influence on who gets what role.

It's attendance. The kids with 100% attendance are the ones that teachers will know can be trusted to make it to every rehearsal. And often, the children of teachers and TAs are the ones with 100% attendance. Being trusted to actually turn up when needed is one of the most reliable predictors of who gets selected for extracurricular stuff - that goes for sports, academics, and it holds in subsequent employment too. Too many people treat sick days like additional holiday. Or that that everyone else should make adjustments to accommodate their sickness absence. That 100% attendance should also correlate strongly with consistently good performance is probably no coincidence either. I'll bet that the same parents complaining their kid doesn't get a better part are the first to argue they should be allowed to take them out of school in term time for an 'educational' holiday ...

There were no auditions when I was at school, the parts just got doled out. I was a good reader, so I was always given narrator, in school uniform, standing at the side. The narrator's lines were always very plain, the acting parts got the running jokes and whatnot (any "comedy" parts were given to one of two boys, one was the class clown , the other was a posh very confident child who was starting to take after his dad, one of those holding court raconteur types. Does the comedy part ever get given to a girl, does anyone know? Or does "but girls aren't funny" start in primary school?). I didn't mind being the narrator but it gets a bit boring year after year. It's like being on sentry duty the whole time while everybody else gets to do some actual soldiering.

I used to be able to memorise reams of stuff quickly (couldn't do it now) so my passive aggressive rebellion was to have learnt the whole thing by the first rehearsal so I could say all my lines (and prompt anybody standing very close to me who forgot theirs) with my head up, I would hold the script low in my hands and never deign to glance at it like it was an insult they thought I would need it. And any time anyone forgot their lines and the teacher was prompting them, I'd Paddington-stare at the teacher thinking "Why didn't you give some lines to the person who is the best in the whole class, by miles, at learning lines fast and delivering them reliably; and let the person who can't even remember three lines after weeks of rehearsals have the narrator part where they have the script in their hands?"

You're running a primary class play, not a west end show. Parents go there to see their kids and they know they're watching a bunch of 10 year olds

Absolutely this - most parents just want to see their child on the stage giving it their all and having fun. I remember when my 3 DC were at primary and it was the same children in the main parts every year - it became boring as there was nothing new to look at.

@DelphiniumBlue Great post. Thank you.
That's my (37 years) experience of school productions in Primary schools too.
It's quite depressing to read the same old lazy accusations of PTA/teacher/TA child favouritism and "it's not the West End" being rolled out yet again. People have zero idea of the mammoth amount of effort and work that goes into such events - all on top of the existing huge workload.

Frankly, I'm surprised so many schools are even doing plays nowadays. Not for much longer, I suspect. Parents like some of the posters on here will play a large part (ha!) in a school's decision to dump the whole shebang as more hassle than it's worth.

@DelphiniumBlue you say you give parts to well behaved children. That's great. It is annoying that a child who told my dc beforehand that they weren't good enough for a part and that there's no point them auditioning because it's their part....has got the part. (This is a long line of bullying behaviour shown by this child yet they get one of the main parts). Why should they get a main part that multiple other children auditioned for (who have shown talent and good behaviour in previous shows)

Other main part has been given to their best friend who is also one who since nursery has been a trouble maker... Regularly saying horrible things and taking things off of other dc. But their parents will hear nothing bad about them and will regularly kick up a fuss if they don't get their own way.

This is the type of parent I was alluding to.... for example.... DC didn't get a space in the choir....sends them anyway and says they will be given a part.
....Not in the team with their best friend for a school fun tournament....just sends them in to school wearing best friends team colours and tells him to join in with them.
....Doesn't get to sit next to best friend in class (different ability bands)....parent kicks up a fuss until they're sat together. This then distracts the other dc on the table as they are constantly asking what to do and copying their work.

It is infuriating to see them get away with so much other the years, and I call and explain my DC was upset and can teacher call me back when possible and then a passive aggressive message put on the class message board.

If your child was invited to audition, presumably several other children were too, for each of those roles. I don’t think being invited for audition automatically means will get one of the roles.

It’s like being shortlisted, not everyone on a shortlist will get the job as it’s down to who interviewed better.

(The role holder being a bully is a different matter)

Primary school is rubbish for plays or any sort of opportunities, it is never fair. There are a chosen few who get the lead roles as well as most other opportunities. They are the primary school super stars.

Thankfully, it all changes in secondary school, when it doesn't matter any longer who your mum and dad are but whether you actually have talent or not.

Many dc who were a bit shy and as a result overlooked by their primary school come into their own in secondary. Hang in there op, it will get a lot better.

It doesn't matter who your mum and dad are in Primary either.
FFS!

I think your bullying issue is a separate matter tbh.

My impression of my kids getting or not getting parts in school plays has been that the main roles go to a) the kids who express an interest in a main or singing role, and b) are able to put in the work and learn the lines. Kids who might not have volunteered but have talent or ‘stage presence’ have also sometimes been encouraged to go for a main role when they might not have.