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Original poster

3 choices refused for Infant class size

71 replies

purple2019 · 17/04/2023 17:00

I applied for 3 schools for my 1st child, unfortunately all 3 choices have been refused for the same reasons - "Infant Class size"
One of the school I applied for is 10 mins walk which has been refused.

Local Authority have allocated a school which we didn't want and this school is the furthest one from all 3 personal choices. (approx 30 min walk)

Most frustrating part on this is some parents only chose one school only and their child have got that school.

We are now going to appeal the decision and wanted to ask kind of information do I/we need to add in the appeal.
So far I have been advised to add the below information for the appeal

  • Financial
  • travel distance from home
  • providing the schools name
  • Family Support

Should I be including the above information in the appeal?

If anyone has been in the same situation as me, please could you let me know what else to include appeal to make this successful

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Original poster
purple2019 · 17/04/2023 21:39

@Foundryside Thank you for your advice. How would I find out if the "council made a mistake processing your application"?
We are currently not on a waiting list but will be contacting the preferred schools tomorrow.

@YorkshireLawyer Thank you for your advice. Our 2nd choice is way within the catchment of 0.5 miles whereas the other 2 are within 1.2 miles of home-to-school distance.

@NerrSnerr Thank you for your advice. How would I find out the maximum distance the furthest child was allocated last year?

The 1st choice was a school that is 1.61 miles but after researching more into this, we found out we are just outside the catchment. However, there are a few children in my area that are in that school.

2nd choice school is 0.55 miles from home and is way within the catchment. After more research, the school is exactly within walking distance (10 mins)

3rd choice school is 1.63 miles from home and this is within a catchment area.

OP posts:
LIZS · 17/04/2023 21:45

ICS appeals are only successful if a mistake was made which deprived you of a place. Ie distance incorrectly measured or should have given a higher priority category. Those who named one school were lucky that they qualified high enough to get allocated a place, not got a place because they only listed one.

thesmee · 17/04/2023 21:59

purple2019 · 17/04/2023 21:39

@Foundryside Thank you for your advice. How would I find out if the "council made a mistake processing your application"?
We are currently not on a waiting list but will be contacting the preferred schools tomorrow.

@YorkshireLawyer Thank you for your advice. Our 2nd choice is way within the catchment of 0.5 miles whereas the other 2 are within 1.2 miles of home-to-school distance.

@NerrSnerr Thank you for your advice. How would I find out the maximum distance the furthest child was allocated last year?

The 1st choice was a school that is 1.61 miles but after researching more into this, we found out we are just outside the catchment. However, there are a few children in my area that are in that school.

2nd choice school is 0.55 miles from home and is way within the catchment. After more research, the school is exactly within walking distance (10 mins)

3rd choice school is 1.63 miles from home and this is within a catchment area.

So you are in catchment for 2 schools? Are you sure? Perhaps that's the norm, I'm just surprised. We're pretty equidistant between 2 schools but only in catchment for one of them.

meditrina · 17/04/2023 22:00

What do you mean by "catchment"

The term actually means a defined priority admissions area (so the criteria after LAC would be something like "1. siblings in catchment 2. other children in catchment 3. other siblings 4.other catchment"

It's pretty unusual to have more than one school as your catchment school. Maps/detailed info is provided alongside admissions info, so you should know which catchment you are in. Have you been put in the correct category?

But bear in mind that even if you are in catchment, that is not in itself sufficient if the places all fill up with pupils who live closer than you do, then

If you just mean "do I live close enough?" (ie where were the furthest distances offered in my category in recent years) then that can vary enormously between years. Information on greatest distance offered last year should be on the LA website (or available on request).

Does you letter give the greatest distances offered this year? That info will also be available from the LA (helps you frame your appeal - if you live 0.5miles away, and the greatest distance in your category was 0.4 then it is unlikely a mistake was made. But if it says 0.6 then potentially there was an error

Original poster
purple2019 · 17/04/2023 22:00

LIZS · 17/04/2023 21:45

ICS appeals are only successful if a mistake was made which deprived you of a place. Ie distance incorrectly measured or should have given a higher priority category. Those who named one school were lucky that they qualified high enough to get allocated a place, not got a place because they only listed one.

Thank you for your reply.

Tomorrow I will be contacting Local Authority on how my application was looked into from that will put my appeal through as well contact schools to get my lil one added to the waiting list.

OP posts:
HarleyLane · 17/04/2023 22:03

You need to read and follow the admissions criteria for you LA. As others have said infant class size restricts numbers.

Additionally, distance to the school isn't the distance you live per se, but how many other applicants live closer.

You could be the 31st family by distance from the school which is admitting 30 pupils

Original poster
purple2019 · 17/04/2023 22:06

thesmee · 17/04/2023 21:59

So you are in catchment for 2 schools? Are you sure? Perhaps that's the norm, I'm just surprised. We're pretty equidistant between 2 schools but only in catchment for one of them.

Show quote history

Hi

The 2 schools are within the catchment after checking each school's catchment area map on their websites

OP posts:
BucketList101 · 17/04/2023 22:06

As an example a few years back a school near me had 26 who got sibling rule places out of 30 and people in the same street as the school didn't get a place.

KaihahUmoniiv · 17/04/2023 22:08

I may have misunderstood your post but if the letter you received states about your 2nd choice school that the furthest distance admitted under the distance criterion was some number greater than 0.55miles, and if your distance of 0.55miles is measured under the correct criteria (which will be very strict as they need to know the correct number down to a few centimetres) then they may have made a mistake and if that's the case it is possible for an appeal to be successful.

If they made no mistake then your best bet is to make sure you are on the waiting list for whichever schools nearer to your home didn't make it into your top 3.

Original poster
purple2019 · 17/04/2023 22:10

HarleyLane · 17/04/2023 22:03

You need to read and follow the admissions criteria for you LA. As others have said infant class size restricts numbers.

Additionally, distance to the school isn't the distance you live per se, but how many other applicants live closer.

You could be the 31st family by distance from the school which is admitting 30 pupils

Hi

I have just read the admission criteria and my lil one falls 3rd on the list for the "Priority Criteria " but from the notes of Criteria he comes in "The child’s place of residence is taken to be the parental/guardian home. Living in the catchment area does not guarantee you a place at your catchment school. "

bit of both

OP posts:
Original poster
purple2019 · 17/04/2023 22:15

@KaihahUmoniiv Thank you for your reply. The distance mentioned are from the Local Authority website when looking for a school under 2 miles distance from my home postcode
That 2nd school on the LA website is 1st on the list as the nearest school.

I will be looking for school further out as part of the waiting list.

OP posts:
Doyoumind · 17/04/2023 22:20

You put a school you were unlikely to get a place at due to distance as your first choice. For your second choice places probably all went to people who had it as their first choice. You can find details about how far away the furthest place was offered and how many places went to the first choice etc.

I would make sure you get on waiting lists and hope for the best.

Foundryside · 17/04/2023 22:20

How would I find out if the "council made a mistake processing your application"?

That would basically come down to something like your child not being considered in the correct category, or them not using the correct distance from your home to the school.

The way to check that would be to call the admissions department and ask them.

If your child should have been considered in a category above the bottom category, were they?
How far away from the school do you live? How far away does the last child admitted to the school live? If they live further away than you, then there may have been an error.

bridgetjonesmassivepants · 17/04/2023 22:23

It's rubbish but there isn't really any such thing as catchment. It depends how many other kids live closer to the school. Also if they have a sibling policy. I had to drive to the other side of my local town for a decent primary as my lovely nearby primary had so many sibling admissions that unless you lived within 135 yards of the school, that year you didn't get in.

meditrina · 17/04/2023 22:24

Doyoumind · 17/04/2023 22:20

You put a school you were unlikely to get a place at due to distance as your first choice. For your second choice places probably all went to people who had it as their first choice. You can find details about how far away the furthest place was offered and how many places went to the first choice etc.

I would make sure you get on waiting lists and hope for the best.

Places are not allocated based on where you list it on the form.

They are allocated by how well you fit the entrance critera. School/admissions authority is given a list of every applicant (regardless of where it was listed on the form) and ranks that list based on the criteria. The LA then turns that into a single offer per pupil.

The only time you preference matters if if you qualify for more than one of your preferences. Then you will be offered the one you ranked highest.

LockInAtTheFeathers · 17/04/2023 22:25

Doyoumind · 17/04/2023 22:20

You put a school you were unlikely to get a place at due to distance as your first choice. For your second choice places probably all went to people who had it as their first choice. You can find details about how far away the furthest place was offered and how many places went to the first choice etc.

I would make sure you get on waiting lists and hope for the best.

No no no no no this is NOT how it works! You do not get priority for putting a school as your first choice. If someone puts a school as their 6th choice but meets the admissions criteria better than someone who puts it first (e.g. by living nearer), then the person who put it 6th would get the place. The equal preference system has been law for many years now.

KaihahUmoniiv · 17/04/2023 22:26

purple2019 · 17/04/2023 22:15

@KaihahUmoniiv Thank you for your reply. The distance mentioned are from the Local Authority website when looking for a school under 2 miles distance from my home postcode
That 2nd school on the LA website is 1st on the list as the nearest school.

I will be looking for school further out as part of the waiting list.

The distance from the school postcode to your home postcode is not what is used, as it is not accurate enough. Sometimes 2 kids in the same yeargroup will live in the same postcode and the numbers will work out that only one of them can have the place.

The admissions criteria for each school will define how they measure distance when distance is a tiebreaker - it's often from the office of the school headteacher to the front door of the child, because defining one entrance gate to the school could be divisive. By this measure each individual child will have a distance calculated to the last cm to use as the tiebreaker.

You should be able to find out what distance they used in your child's case (in a lot of LAs this information will be on the rejection letter but this isn't universal) and you can check whether it seems correct.

Your rejection letter should also state (or if it doesn't, you should find out asap) what the distance was for the person who was admitted who lives furthest away - are they further away from the school than you, or nearer?

Youcancallmeirrelevant · 17/04/2023 22:29

Just because you live in the catchment area doesn't mean you will get a space. Usually it is kids in care or with echp's, then siblings, then by distance up to the 30/60 infant class size.

So if lots of kids covered by 1st 2, then disrance, if you aren't that close chance of getting in is lower.

Whether you put 1st/2nd/3rd doesn't matter, you could in theory get into all 3 schools based on criteria but would only be offered you r highest choice

hgaj · 17/04/2023 22:30

Doyoumind · 17/04/2023 22:20

You put a school you were unlikely to get a place at due to distance as your first choice. For your second choice places probably all went to people who had it as their first choice. You can find details about how far away the furthest place was offered and how many places went to the first choice etc.

I would make sure you get on waiting lists and hope for the best.

As others have said check what the offers were this year and get on waiting lists. Note Doyoumind is incorrect in that your order of choice won't have affected your chances of admission. The schools rank all applicants irrespective of where parents list it. The LA then offer you the top choice that you can get into.

NameChange30 · 18/04/2023 07:43

purple2019 · 17/04/2023 22:06

Hi

The 2 schools are within the catchment after checking each school's catchment area map on their websites

Show quote history

It's unusual to be in the catchment areas for two schools - they don't usually overlap.

Our closest school is an academy and they don't have a catchment area; they just go by proximity to the school.

Our next closest school is our catchment school (a state school).

I do have friends whose closest state school is not their catchment school and they are actually in catchment for a school that's further away.

rattlinbog · 18/04/2023 08:39

Where I am there are no catchments. It's just done on distance to the school. So there is no school you are guaranteed to be in the catchment for.

Original poster
purple2019 · 18/04/2023 10:01

KaihahUmoniiv · 17/04/2023 22:26

The distance from the school postcode to your home postcode is not what is used, as it is not accurate enough. Sometimes 2 kids in the same yeargroup will live in the same postcode and the numbers will work out that only one of them can have the place.

The admissions criteria for each school will define how they measure distance when distance is a tiebreaker - it's often from the office of the school headteacher to the front door of the child, because defining one entrance gate to the school could be divisive. By this measure each individual child will have a distance calculated to the last cm to use as the tiebreaker.

You should be able to find out what distance they used in your child's case (in a lot of LAs this information will be on the rejection letter but this isn't universal) and you can check whether it seems correct.

Your rejection letter should also state (or if it doesn't, you should find out asap) what the distance was for the person who was admitted who lives furthest away - are they further away from the school than you, or nearer?

Show quote history

I contacted my LA and have been put on the waiting list for all 3 schools.

they cannot provide details on the previous year furthest child admission and also cannot provide this years details.

our rejection letter only stated Infant class size, there was no other details at all.

they did mention that need to put as much information as possible in the appeal and not just about admissions criteria or distance as this would have already taken in to account.

Also found out that my opposite neighbor child goes to that school (older) so more likely my child "points" were a lil less than someone with a sibling going to that school

OP posts:
Original poster
purple2019 · 18/04/2023 10:07

Foundryside · 17/04/2023 22:20

How would I find out if the "council made a mistake processing your application"?

That would basically come down to something like your child not being considered in the correct category, or them not using the correct distance from your home to the school.

The way to check that would be to call the admissions department and ask them.

If your child should have been considered in a category above the bottom category, were they?
How far away from the school do you live? How far away does the last child admitted to the school live? If they live further away than you, then there may have been an error.

Hi

Thank you for clarifying the question I asked.
Spoke to my LA, asked how my lil one missed out etc and they could not give full details but mentioned more towards if a child with a sibling would have got the place 1st than my lil one. or someone who got more point due to the criteria for the school.

How far away from the school do you live? - that details they could not give (security reasons)
How far away does the last child admitted to the school live? If they live further away than you, - same reason as above

my lil one is on the waiting list (finger crossed gets one those school) but they mentioned his position on the list can move up/down depending on others points

OP posts:
TallulahBetty · 18/04/2023 10:14

BucketList101 · 17/04/2023 22:06

As an example a few years back a school near me had 26 who got sibling rule places out of 30 and people in the same street as the school didn't get a place.

That is ridiculous. I get that it's better for siblings to attend the same school than not, but for it to cost a child living that close a place...

TallulahBetty · 18/04/2023 10:14

rattlinbog · 18/04/2023 08:39

Where I am there are no catchments. It's just done on distance to the school. So there is no school you are guaranteed to be in the catchment for.

Same here. I think the idea of catchments is slowly dying out.