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Primary education

Join our Primary Education forum to discuss starting school and helping your child get the most out of it.

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Original poster

School Admissions Surrey- nearest school and priority

30 replies

Obeythedancecommander · 04/04/2023 17:59

I thought I understood the admissions policy with nearest school but someone today told me my son may not get into our closest school in Sept 24 because of lots of new builds that have been built in our area.

I am inbetween 2 infants schools, our closest school, school A, is 0.38 of a mile away. This school has no juniors but is a feeder school for an unrelated junior school 5 miles away that is outstanding. The second infants, school B, is 0.42 miles away and has an attached juniors but it is not a good school and has required improvement for years. There is no catchment area to either school.

Lots of new builds have been built on the other side of school A. The closest house on this new estate is 0.47 miles away from school A and is 1.1 miles from school B.

In this case scenario is it down to which ever persons 1st choice school is closer to them who would take priority? Or is there something to say that because the new estate is much closer to school A than it is for school B they would get the priority for the place as it would be their closest school too and my 2nd closest school is still really close by?

I thought it was purely down to whoever is closest out of 1st choices as the crow flies but now I am doubting this and wondering if we still stand a chance with my preferred school.

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Soapboxqueen · 04/04/2023 18:04

You need to look at the admissions criteria.

If after LAC/SEN etc the criteria goes straight to distance, then the new estate won't get some special treatment.

If they decide to create a catchment area, they could prioritise the new estate but they'd have to state that from the outset.

TheSnowyOwl · 04/04/2023 18:06

It will come down to how many apply and how far away you are compared to others that apply. So you can be in catchment and still not get in because they school accepts 30 (or whatever the PAN is) but there are 30 or more other children applying who are higher up the admissions list than your child. So an ECHP, being in care, being a sibling, being the child of someone who works at the school, being a certain religion, coming from a feeder school/nursery etc can all be reasons to be higher up the admissions list than a child who lives in the catchment area. If there aren’t enough places, with a few reasons aside, it will be done on the distance for each admission section.

TheSnowyOwl · 04/04/2023 18:09

There are no guarantees. You can live next door to our secondary school but not get a place unless you have a sibling there or go to a feeder school.

Original poster

Obeythedancecommander · 04/04/2023 18:10

It's

lac
social or medical need
siblings
nearest school
any other applicants

OP posts:

Original poster

Obeythedancecommander · 04/04/2023 18:11

There is no other feeder school for the school, its just an infants with no nursery attached

OP posts:

TheSnowyOwl · 04/04/2023 18:13

So presumably you will come under section 4 and it all depends upon the PAN and how many apply. There are no guarantees you will get a place. Are the schools typically oversubscribed? Surrey will have their admissions data available for you to see and also you can tell for some schools how far away the person who got the last place lived.

PuttingDownRoots · 04/04/2023 18:15

What is the tie breaker in each category? If its distance and you live closer than other people in your category, you get the place.

CastleTower · 04/04/2023 18:22

Is "nearest school" short for "child lives nearest to the school" or "this school is the child's nearest school"?

Lougle · 04/04/2023 18:22

"our closest school, school A, is 0.38 of a mile away.....The second infants, school B, is 0.42 miles away."

You win. What you might need to consider though, is what happens in year 3. If the new village houses are closer to the junior school than you are, theymay get priority, depending on whether there is a criteria "attends feeder school". Some schools put additional criteria of "attends feeder school and is in catchment", then "attends feeder school and is out of catchment". Even if there is no such criteria, then often it is distance that is the tiebreaker within a category.

titchy · 04/04/2023 18:22

Surrey is unusual in that it has 'nearest school' as an extra criteria. So you would be under criteria 4 for school A, but priority 5 for school B. The new builds would also be criteria 4 for school A, but as you live closer than any of them would, you would be ranked higher due to that.

How close your second nearest school is won't be a factor. It's either 'is this the nearest school - yes/no'.

Lougle · 04/04/2023 18:23

"our closest school, school A, is 0.38 of a mile away.....The closest house on this new estate is 0.47 miles away from school A"

Wrong quote above.

OutDamnedSpot · 04/04/2023 18:25

whats the exact wording of Criteria 4? Is it ‘nearest school to home’ or ‘distance to school’?

TheSnowyOwl · 04/04/2023 18:26

Also, is the admissions for 2024/25 or an older one as sometimes they change when more houses are built nearby.

Original poster

Obeythedancecommander · 04/04/2023 18:47

It's written as
4) Nearest school
The nearest school is defined as the school closest to their home address* admitting pupils of the appropriate age
range, as measured by a straight line. The nearest school may be either inside or outside the county boundary.

Any Other applicant If there is oversubscription in any of the above criteria priority will be given on the basis of nearness to school measured in a straight line from the address point of the pupil’s house, as set by ordnance survey to the nearest school gate for pupils to use. This is calculated using the Admission and Transport team’s Geographical Information System. If there are two applicants from the same block of flats the applicant with the lowest door number will be given priority. In the case of multiple births or siblings born in the same academic year, where only one place remains the parents will be asked to decide which child will be offered a place. (The remaining siblings will be placed at the top of the waiting list.)

OP posts:

TheSnowyOwl · 04/04/2023 18:52

What is the PAN?

It really will depend upon how many apply and how far away they live, assuming they don’t already get a place under a higher category. You should normally get a place at one of your closest schools though.

Original poster

Obeythedancecommander · 04/04/2023 18:54

Lougle · 04/04/2023 18:22

"our closest school, school A, is 0.38 of a mile away.....The second infants, school B, is 0.42 miles away."

I'm not too worried about y3.

I didn't mention in my post but I currently have a child in y1 and one in y2 of the preferred school. By the time I apply for Yr for the youngest I will be applying for y3 for the middle child at the juniors. As long as my eldest gets into the juniors (I find out in 2 weeks) the other 2 children will get in to juniors due to sibling priority.

We will miss sibling priority at infants because when my youngest would start the middle one will have just left.

OP posts:

Original poster

Obeythedancecommander · 04/04/2023 18:57

The school PAN is 30. The school has never had 30 1st place applications ever previously, however I know that this year they have had 40 1st place applications as I've just joined the school as a parent governor.

OP posts:

BendingSpoons · 04/04/2023 19:03

If your distances are correct, then this is your nearest school and you live closer than the new builds, so you should be higher up the list and presumably reasonably likely to get a place. The current admissions criteria for school A does not allow them to take into account you are quite near school B too when allocating places.

Their oversubscription criteria for multiple births looks dodgy to me! But that's not relevant to you!

TheSnowyOwl · 04/04/2023 19:29

Obeythedancecommander · 04/04/2023 18:57

Ask them how far away the furthest they gave a place to was and how far away the furthest applicant was. Another local school being thought of either very badly or very well will also make a big difference so it’s still a bit early to predict what next year’s admission numbers will be.

prh47bridge · 04/04/2023 19:37

On the admission criteria you have posted, you will have priority over anyone living in the new builds for both schools assuming the distances you have given are straight line.

handmademitlove · 04/04/2023 19:57

It doesn't matter if they put the school as first place - that does not move them up the priority list. For each school, all applicants are ranked according to the admission criteria. So the first eg 30 would get a place. If someone qualifies for more than one school, the highest priority is offered and they are removed from the other school lists. Then the shuffling begins!
So putting a school as first priority does not improve your chance of getting the school - just that if you 'qualify' for more than one school, you will get the one highest up the list.
The important issues are what category you would qualify under - a higher priority but further distance will win over living nearer but being a lower priority.
A good question to ask is what is the last category offered and what the distance was - so in your example, if category 4 distance 0.5 was the last offered, you would get in as you would be cat 4 and nearer than 0.5. If cat 5 and 0.3 was last offered, all those under cat 4 would get in and then those living up to 0.3 in cat 5.

lifehappens12 · 04/04/2023 20:26

Without trying to guess where you live - are you in Surrey Heath as you sound like you are in my village. Lots of new builds and we didn't send our child to the closest but to a small infants in the next village which has been brilliant for my son.

It might have been luck but we got our first choice but his school wasn't over subscribed

PatriciaHolm · 04/04/2023 22:07

This type of confusion is precisely why surrey are increasingly working toward getting rid of the "closest school" criteria!

If your distances are correct and straight line, then you and occupants of the new homes will fall into the same criteria, but you will take precedence as you live nearer.

PatriciaHolm · 04/04/2023 22:10

...and yes, first preference isn't relevant. The only time preferences come into play is if someone qualifies for an offer from more than one school. Then the LA looks At preferences and offers the higher preference allocation.

viques · 05/04/2023 13:28

That’s a bit harsh on multiple birth siblings. I thought the convention was that if Twin 1 was the last child offered a place then Twin 2 would be automatically also be offered a place as a plus 1 on the PAN number, even for ICS.

Bit tricky if the last offered place went to Child 1 of sextuplets of course, but for twins and triplets I imagine the place/s being offered is where common sense should take priority.

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