Appealing Place for Y3?

[StonePie]

We recently moved across the country to be nearer to DH family. I have DD1 who is currently in Y2 and DD2 who will be starting Reception in September. DD1 was very happy at her previous school, which was a big village primary - 3 classes per year.

We have moved to a ‘naice’ town, there is a good primary school very close. Unfortunately they didn’t have space in Y2 for DD1 so we’ve had to send her to a primary school in a nearby village. It is about a 6 minute drive. This school is tiny, only 70 kids in the whole school. DD1 is doing ok, but I think finding it hard to make friends as the friendship groups are quite set, there are very few girls her age and the parents are all great friends so very tight knit.

We have applied for Reception places for DD2, and assume she will get a place at the nearest school because we are very close. This school is actually in the same academy as the small school DD1 is at, I don’t know if that has any bearing.

We would really like them both to go to the nearest school. However, it seems that the school is still going to be full for Y3. I think we need to re-apply in April to keep DD1 on the list. If we get rejected, could someone advise on appeals process and likelihood of success?

DD1 is very keen for DD2 to go to the same school as her and obviously logistically this would be a lot easier for us to (DD2 could definitely go to DD1 small school if we wanted).

The issue is that we aren’t making any friends where we live. I don’t feel part of the community at all and I don’t see how that could change if both girls are going to the small village school that is a drive away. The wrap around care also makes working hours difficult for us. And it all just makes me feel completely isolated.

Does she have any chance of getting into Y3 on appeal? Should I just give up all hope now?

When did you make your application for reception? If it was after the closing date and the school you want is oversubscribed you may well not end up there despite being close as your application will be dealt with after all the rest.

In terms of an appeal, for year 3 you are looking at a regular appeal so you need to show the detriment to her of not attending js greater than the detriment to the school of taking another pupil. Transport issues and siblings aren't really relevant I'm afraid so you would need to find other reasons why this school meets her needs.

You may also find she jumps up the waiting list as a sibling once your youngest joins - check the admissions criteria.

Thank you for the reply. We applied for Reception by the usual deadline.

It’s not really about transport, to be honest I find it easier driving her for a few minutes than trying to get them to walk. It’s about being part of the community and making friends where we live. Does that not make a difference? The local school also offers more in terms of music lessons etc.

She is already top of the waiting list because of how close we live.

The music lessons are your strongest point, particularly if your daughter is musical.

She’s not musical (yet) because with everything going on we haven’t been able to get her lessons, she was too young for instrument lessons at her old school and they only do one instrument at her current school (it isn’t the one she wants to learn). She is keen on music though and asked (and got) a guitar for Christmas.

Realistically, community/friendships are a weak case, as is the music if she hasn't really started yet. If you can show the required school offers lessons in something she is keen on that the other school doesn't, that will help, but you would be relying on the school's case not to admit being weak. Which of course it might be. You would get the schools case in advance of the hearing so you can think of questions to ask, such as are they over PAN in any classes already, which would suggest they could cope.

I'm no expert, but you might get her in, in Year 3 as there won't be the infant class size rule to contend with anymore.

I'm not an admissions expert but you'll probably need to be sure you time your appeal so that it's considered as an application for Year 3 (with no infants class size rule) as opposed for Year 2 (which does has, and so will be harder to win).

@PatriciaHolm thanks. That is depressing though. I can’t sleep now for thinking about it. I really want them both to go to the same school. I feel completely isolated since our move.

@Heckythump1 yes, that’s why we want to appeal for Y3 and didn’t bother appealing for Y2, because of the infant class size rule.

I’m at a loss what to do. At the school DD is at, there are only 2 other girls in her year group and they have been best friends since they were babies. I also feel really isolated. She is top of the waiting list anyway so I don’t know whether to put her younger sister in that school and just hope she gets a place at some point. However she is saying she doesn’t want to move. She’s already had a lot of upheaval with our move (which I now really regret). Or do I put younger one in the same school she’s at now and just live with it, hope they make some friends and hope I make some friends? I feel like I’ll never get to know anyone where we live if we do that.

I really don’t have a feel for how likely we are to be successful just based on the fact that we live nearby and it’s better for friendship opportunities/ community. From what’s been said upthread that is a weak case. If the school’s case is also weak (I.e. only based on PAN and there’s evidence they’ve gone above that before), what happens?

It is a very weak case. You really need to find other things that the appeal school offers that are missing from the allocated school. As per my earlier post, the music lessons are your strongest point and you've missed them out completely in this post.

The appeal panel will decide whether the disadvantage to your daughter from not being admitted outweighs any problems the school will face through having an additional pupil. If the school's case is weak, a weak case may be enough to convince the panel to admit. Sometimes the school's case is so weak that almost any appeal will succeed.

Are you sure the numbers don't go up in year 3? I'm my local large school, they took 60 in year R, but could go up to 64 in year 3.

Thank you @prh47bridge I will try to find out about further lessons at the appeal school. They haven’t responded to my email asking about this and class numbers. I think one of the things that might make it more difficult is that the head of the appeal school took over as head of DD’s current school so they are in the same academy and I suppose that they try to make sure the offering is similar at both schools. Coincidentally (or not?) her current school has just sent out an email about offering more music lessons.

I think DD1 would be really upset if we sent DD2 to a different school. She wants her with her at the little school as she said “then I’ll always have someone to play with”. It would also be a logistical challenge for us to have them at different schools too… it would be a lot less hassle just to send them both there. I just don’t know if it’s the right thing for them. And I don’t know what the intake is going to be for R. I think they had 10 this year but my DD1’s year must have only been about 5.

@Lougle no I don’t think so, I was told they are going to remain full for Y3 at 45.

Honestly, the sibling link is your weakest argument here. Many schools don't allow siblings to play together anyway, because they want them to develop their own friendships.

Look at your DD1 in isolation and how the bigger school can meet her needs.

@Lougle sorry, I know it doesn’t have a bearing on the appeal it’s more my stream of consciousness about what we should do, I.e. leave DD1 in her current school and put DD2 in the closer/ bigger (appeal) school. Or just put DD2 in the same small school with DD1 because then they will be together and I wouldn’t have the hassle of the appeal and of moving DD1 for a second time.

The appeal school has said they have spaces in higher year groups. I’m not sure which ones, but they have two mixed classes of Y3/Y4. If there are spaces in Y4, does that make it more likely they would take her? Btw we haven’t actually been rejected yet, I’ve just been told they are full for the Y3 cohort starting in September.

No, because if they are under PAN for year 4, they have to accept a child who applies. If they give your year 3 child a year 4 place, then they could end up having to go over class size if children apply for year 4.

@Lougle thanks 😞

There's often movement in the summer term because parents choose then to move if there is a choice. We waited about 9 weeks for a place when we moved, getting one in late June

@gogohmm thank you. If there’s movement over the summer do they tell you before September? Because I assume I’ll need to decide before the end of the year which school to send my younger one to! Because we are so close to the appeal school she should be offered a place there (unless I’m missing something?) but we would have the option to send her to DD1 current school because they always have spaces.

You should get your reception allocation on 17 April. Assuming you get the appeal school, o would accept it, if you are confident that the other school is undersubscribed and so would have a place if you change your mind.

Thanks @PatriciaHolm I’m pretty sure it will be undersubscribed as the head told me so the other day, but I will check again after the reception places have been offered.