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Original poster

Expectations of GIfted and Talented

55 replies

Zippidydoda · 02/03/2023 08:31

My son has recently been invited to some day trips for pupils at his school who are gifted and Talented in some subjects. These needs to be paid for by parents and are quite expensive. We have paid for them but I do wonder about children whose families couldn’t pay!

anyway my query is- if you have a child identified as Gifted and Talented what does your school/class do to meet their needs and stretch them within school?

Other than these day trips I’ve heard nothing about my son being gifted and talented or any other type of stretching for him. He regularly says he finishing his work quickly and easily and helps by being a TA and helping the other children.

I am going to email the school to ask these questions but I am interested to hear what happens at other schools for GAT students.

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DelphiniumBlue · 02/03/2023 08:42

Provision should be made for more able children, and having them act as a TA is Ok in that they will be practising explaining clearly, but IME that is not sufficient. You could be asking what are they doing to stretch and challenge DC, and whether they get differentiated work or targets or teaching. Often there is differentiation that the DC will not necessarily be aware of - eg they are the focus of more searching questioning, and might be given tasks that involve more independent learning. Many children differentiate by effort and outcome, which can be an issue if you have a bright but lazy or unengaged child.
Do speak to the school, they should be able to give you specific detail, and if they can't it might flag up to them that they should be doing more.
Whilst it's nice to be offered trips, I think these should not necessarily be charged - you could ask if help is available with the costs. If chargeable trips are their only provision, then that is not good enough.

gogohmm · 02/03/2023 09:55

Dd was given additional work, particularly in maths and science to stretch her, they got secondary school maths books for her for instance. She did extra trips too but they were funded (10+ years ago though)

Original poster
Zippidydoda · 02/03/2023 20:25

Thanks for the advice. I’ll contact the school.
I quite agree the trips should be funded.

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APurpleSquirrel · 03/03/2023 23:51

DD gets the Greater Depth work & if she finishes that/finds it to easy is often given the work for the next year up - she's taught in a mixed year group class so they have access to the upper years work.

TizerorFizz · 04/03/2023 00:03

Gifted and Talented is no longer a label I believe. Never seen it now as a governor. We are inclusive and every enriching trip is offered to everyone. No one is picked out. Work is of course set to differing levels and greater depth and other challenges are set to the brightest to stretch them within the curriculum. But paying money for extra trips not offered to all Dc? Absolutely not. How any school can justify this is beyond me. Are there send children left behind if they don’t have a gift and struggle to read? This is just not acceptable.

TeenDivided · 04/03/2023 07:50

But paying money for extra trips not offered to all Dc? Absolutely not. How any school can justify this is beyond me

Agree.

School should be teaching well day to day for all abilities. Further enrichment trips should be paid for by parents (or covered by PP where appropriate), and wherever possible different trips should be offered for different abilities and interests, not just to the most able.

skelter83 · 04/03/2023 07:54

How do schools fund those trips out of current budgets? Education funding is terrible, you can’t take that up with the school.

CowboyHat · 04/03/2023 07:54

In my experience, more able kids are not stretched enough. At my child’s primary school the class sizes are small (20 kids) but there still isn’t sufficient resource to stretch the smart kids. Priority is given to those that are struggling. I find it extremely frustrating and it reminds me of my own school experience in the 80s. Back then, if you finished your work early you went into the corridor to play.

AuroraCake · 04/03/2023 09:11

APurpleSquirrel · 03/03/2023 23:51

DD gets the Greater Depth work & if she finishes that/finds it to easy is often given the work for the next year up - she's taught in a mixed year group class so they have access to the upper years work.

This is a Hugh no no. You cannot gove the next year up work anymore…I used to. If school were caught it would be a mark against. You need to stretch sideways. Parents don’t see this as enough work but it is the curriculum at the moment.

AuroraCake · 04/03/2023 09:13

CowboyHat · 04/03/2023 07:54

In my experience, more able kids are not stretched enough. At my child’s primary school the class sizes are small (20 kids) but there still isn’t sufficient resource to stretch the smart kids. Priority is given to those that are struggling. I find it extremely frustrating and it reminds me of my own school experience in the 80s. Back then, if you finished your work early you went into the corridor to play.

You can hand children more problem solving work or outsider the box thinking work. It isn’t hard. They aren’t goi g tot get more teacher time. They don’t need it. If you are very secure at something you should be completely independent.

Parker231 · 04/03/2023 09:18

TizerorFizz · 04/03/2023 00:03

Gifted and Talented is no longer a label I believe. Never seen it now as a governor. We are inclusive and every enriching trip is offered to everyone. No one is picked out. Work is of course set to differing levels and greater depth and other challenges are set to the brightest to stretch them within the curriculum. But paying money for extra trips not offered to all Dc? Absolutely not. How any school can justify this is beyond me. Are there send children left behind if they don’t have a gift and struggle to read? This is just not acceptable.

Same as where I was governor - no labelling and definitely no trips for just one academic group. Totally goes against the inclusive for all.

bellsbuss · 04/03/2023 10:08

My 2 older children were classed as gifted and talented and used to go on trips with other children from different schools. These trips were funded though. I haven't heard of gifted and talented since my younger children started though.

snowtrees · 05/03/2023 00:07

Our high still has some G&T activity but never heard of at primary

Copasetic · 05/03/2023 00:15

My eldest (28) was in a gifted and talented group but it was not really a thing by the time my 20 year old was in school and definitely not now with my 12 year old. I never hear the term any more. My 12 year old in primary was greater depth and given extra work but nothing extra in secondary.

Nimbostratus100 · 05/03/2023 00:19

Gifted and talented is not a thing anymore

For a while there was Maggots instead, but I don't think that is a thing now either

Original poster
Zippidydoda · 05/03/2023 03:15

The letter regarding the trip refers to a trip for “able, gifted and talented”. To be fair I’ve not heard the phrase other than in relation to this school trip. possibly the school are using it because the organisation organising the activities are using it.
This is a trip that pupils from multiple schools will be going on. I quite agree activities should be offered for all.

I need to ask about how they differentiate for my son. It wasn’t mentioned at his parent evening recently at all. Though that doesn’t mean they aren’t doing it.

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Original poster
Zippidydoda · 05/03/2023 03:16

skelter83 · 04/03/2023 07:54

How do schools fund those trips out of current budgets? Education funding is terrible, you can’t take that up with the school.

That’s as maybe, but I think if it’s a trip the school are encouraging and offering to some pupils there should be funding for those who can’t afford £60! Or maybe the school shouldn’t offer/encourage it?

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TeenDivided · 05/03/2023 06:17

Zippidydoda · 05/03/2023 03:16

That’s as maybe, but I think if it’s a trip the school are encouraging and offering to some pupils there should be funding for those who can’t afford £60! Or maybe the school shouldn’t offer/encourage it?

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The very lowest income should get PP.
If your DC gets PP but is G&T then I think it could be very easily argued that the PP should pay for it (as it won't be being used for literacy / maths interventions for example.)
Otherwise you could ask for a payment over time maybe?

Mayhemmumma · 05/03/2023 06:50

Our school have a gifted and talented group - my daughter does higher level work and recently had an external visitor an author doing some creative writing with them. On the whole she does very little different to rest of class.

zingally · 05/03/2023 10:57

In my experience, it's not really a formal thing schools address any more.

Informally, their teacher might provide some additional challenge for those kids, but don't expect anything formal and measurable in place.

I don't know any primary schools round me who offer anything extra to G&T kids.

Original poster
Zippidydoda · 05/03/2023 16:28

TeenDivided · 05/03/2023 06:17

The very lowest income should get PP.
If your DC gets PP but is G&T then I think it could be very easily argued that the PP should pay for it (as it won't be being used for literacy / maths interventions for example.)
Otherwise you could ask for a payment over time maybe?

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We’ve paid. It was more concern for what other families who couldn’t afford £60 would do. It’s a very high cost for one trip. Im
actually wondering if I was a bit of a mug to pay it.

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Original poster
Zippidydoda · 05/03/2023 16:29

zingally · 05/03/2023 10:57

In my experience, it's not really a formal thing schools address any more.

Informally, their teacher might provide some additional challenge for those kids, but don't expect anything formal and measurable in place.

I don't know any primary schools round me who offer anything extra to G&T kids.

It’s useful to know thanks. If schools generally don’t do much that’s fine…well just the way it is. Just hard to know what is a reasonable expectation.

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TeenDivided · 05/03/2023 16:34

You're not a mug to pay it.
School budgets are cut to the bone. If sufficient parents don't pay for 'voluntary contributions' for trips etc then the trips just won't happen.

Original poster
Zippidydoda · 05/03/2023 16:38

TeenDivided · 05/03/2023 16:34

You're not a mug to pay it.
School budgets are cut to the bone. If sufficient parents don't pay for 'voluntary contributions' for trips etc then the trips just won't happen.

To be clear It wasn’t a voluntary contribution for a school trip. The school suggested our child do an activity and we had to book it direct with the organisation if we wanted our child to do it. If we didn’t pay he wouldn’t do it. I always pay for school trips. I don’t ever not pay voluntary contribution for the usual whole class trips.

I mean I’m wondering if the activity is even worth £60 per child.

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DistrictCommissioner · 05/03/2023 16:42

Zippidydoda · 05/03/2023 16:38

To be clear It wasn’t a voluntary contribution for a school trip. The school suggested our child do an activity and we had to book it direct with the organisation if we wanted our child to do it. If we didn’t pay he wouldn’t do it. I always pay for school trips. I don’t ever not pay voluntary contribution for the usual whole class trips.

I mean I’m wondering if the activity is even worth £60 per child.

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That sounds more like school has been approached by an external organisation to hunt for participants?