State vs Independent

[Mumblesabout]

My husband and I are currently debating this. We have an offer from a lovely north london independent school that we really like for our DD and we have accepted and paid the deposit for reception. It was a great feeling getting the offer and of course with all the buzz around you did feel as though you’ve won a prize. Now however the excitement has calmed down a bit we’re feeling unsure of our decision and are wondering if we made the right choice. Some of it is an insurance policy should we not get the state school we prefer, but we don’t know what we’ll do if we do get the state school we prefer as it is very good.

Is anyone else in the same situation? Are we going to be the only ones doing this? Are we insane? Our logic is that we will be losing £3k now but saving a great deal of money in the longer run to spend on things that will enrich our lives (travel, extra curricular, life experiences, less stressed parents). We would apply potentially for grammar school or independent schools at 11+ with tutoring.

£3000 is the deposit? I thought it would be like £100 or something 🤣

We considered independent school for primary but just couldn't justify the cost when the state schools were fine near us. Decided I'd rather save up and have the option for secondary

Do you have other children, or are you planning on having any more?
Could you cope with a 20%+ fee rise under a future Labour government and annual cost of living+ increases?
What is the independent school's track record on success in 11+ exams for grammar schools? (Is it worth investing now for a shot at grammar - cheaper to pay for primary than secondary education?)
Lots of other threads on state v independent and some people feel very strongly that only one option is right, but the reality is that schools vary massively in both sectors and the best approach is to look at the ones in your area and pick one that is a good fit for your child (and that you can afford...)
Bear in mind that it will be easier to jump from state to private than the other way round if you regret your initial decision (that is certainly true outside London - it may be different if they are over-subscribed)

Are you happy to send your child to private school and miss out on the travel, extra-curricular, life experiences and lack of stress? Remember those things benefit DD as well.

Is the worst case state school + all these things a worse option than private school + none of those things?

@redskydelight this is exactly what we’re debating! The state school that we want (brooklands) is highly oversubscribed, the independent (channing) is absolutely lovely. I guess I was hoping to hear if other people are in the same situation as us as everyone around us thinks we’re crazy to turn down this opportunity

We're in the same boat and similar catchment , either a move for a great primary (which I feel is the same as paying for a prep anyway), or a good prep

Our choices are berkhamsted pre prep
Or Habs , if she passes the assessment

We were in a similar position in that we had a the choice between top London day school and an outstanding primary.

We went private but we can afford it and still travel, do extra curricular activities etc without undue stress.
If that wasn't the case I wouldn't do it honestly.

For us, we decided to go private because even though the state option was outstanding, they didn't have the resources to fully stretch a child as academic as our DD given government funding cuts and the pace of teaching and co-curricular activities at her private school were a better overall fit.

<<<For us, we decided to go private because even though the state option was outstanding, they didn't have the resources to fully stretch a child as academic as our DD >>>

@MomFromSE at what age did you know she was academic ?

@Amy8 we always knew she was developmentally advanced to be honest but her preschool confirmed she was unusually bright when she was about 3.

@MomFromSE that's amazing that you've been able to find an environment that draws that out and well I promotes it , my DD is only two , she seems on par if not a little ahead of her peers but gosh I'm not sure I could be sure

When she gets to 11 would you prefer a grammar option or private secondary - I've found the best grammars are far superior academically than private because they are more selective

@Amy8
More selective than St Paul’s girls? Really? The top results in the country are often private schools. Some grammars that a super selective are of course top performing but most grammars are trumped by private schools. However don’t just look at academics. There’s far more to school than that!

A good prep should have subject specialist teachers. They should offer MFL teaching, lots of sport, excellent art, music and drama. It should have facilities to reflect this. They should have stimulating clubs. There should be TAs and other support staff. You should see where your money is going. They should have happy engaged children and superb teaching. If they don’t match up to a local state school, don’t pay. My DD2 went to a prep with everything and no state school was comparable. They get far less £ per pupil.

@Amy8 That's not accurate. Top independent schools outperform top grammar schools. If you combined the results of the top 10 from each sector, the independent schools would dominate the rankings.

Of course there are mediocre private schools (and grammar schools) so its more about the specific options you have rather than the sector per se.

My DD is at a school that goes to 18 so we'll leave her there unless there is a compelling reason to move her when the time comes.

Sorry to qualify I am looking at my area - where the local grammar has been out performing the local privates on a whole - I'm going by the new grading structure for GCSEs , I definitely don't think that's the picture nationally but I'm also in an area dominated by private schools - 22 in the whole county..so it's quite remarkable the grammar is doing well with less funding...

That's why I'll need to send her ti a better private further afield and ultimately my decision will probably be based on more than just academics - for me the pastoral and individualised nurturing environment is everything - it's what I'd have liked if my parents were in the position I'm fortunate enough to be in now.

There's pros and cons on both - still v much undecided, can't get over some other more moral based arguments personally

I don't know St. Paul's - I know the north London group of private schools and Hertfordshire

@TizerorFizz

Is this the same St Paul's in the article I found online ?

"In 2014 and 2015, St Paul’s School become mired in serious, ongoing allegations of recent and historic abuse, some proven, the impact of which has left the reputation of St Paul’s very much in the balance. More on this below."

Its a bit unfair comparing grammars that cost zero and are state funded to schools that charge around 30K+ a year and have huge charities /trusts/guilds behind them with warchests in the multi-millions, (i.e Mercer for St Pauls schools and Bute)

So while Grammars can select, they can't fund the sort of added value the private schools can.

Schools like St Pauls ARE more selective than say Henrietta Barnett School, Henrietta just demands clever girls, St Pauls demands clever girls who have welahty parents, bar the tiny chosen few on generous bursaries.

OP, everyone says this , state till 11, we'll apply for grammar or Indie at 11+, believe me, if you're worried about prep fees, they are nothing comapred to senior school fees and 6th form, and grammars are HUGELY oversubscribed in London, or anywhere else if they are good, less stressed is not what comes to mind.

But as @TizerorFizz says no good state primary is going to come close to a good prep, in facilities, in one to one teaching, in activities, trips, sports, clubs, music, library, teacher and TA ratios, in progress reporting, and for me that was most important because the 5 to 11 years are so vital in development.

I don't really care about feeding to 'top schools' I want well rounded kids at 11, who have enjoyed a full education with great facilities.

I could happily send all DC to prep then state school, knowing they had a great foundation, the irony is state comps that have streaming, as most do, are fantastic for bright middle classed children, whereas a lot of parents send their DC to overcrowded state primaries with a tiny library or no library, and then cram them to get into grammar or private senior where they are catching up with the kids who feed from preps.

we declined Channing at 4+ but to stay at a prep as we thought she might do better at 11+ and Channing wouldn’t prep for that. At 11+ she got offers from Channing again and a few schools of the same calibre (middle tier), will likely get a grammar and another good state schools. I’m happy we didn’t chose Channing at 4+ although the gamble didn’t quite pay off - still won’t be going to Channing, likely to the school she got a scholarship from.

@Amy8

Please don't embarrass yourself...

We had a similar dilemma, but we decided to keep our son at a primary school then apply to a highly selective independent school at 13+ (2 years at a prep at ages 11-12).

It meant that we could spend the money on what we thought was suitable for our son and because of these out of school activities/lessons he was very unique from the independent school's point of view. He is super happy there now, with amazing amount of opportunities that he would not have been exposed to in grammar schools.

@Amy8
Did you not read the word “girls?”

I do think grammars suit many Dc and yes, they cost you £0. However we chose a smaller private secondary for DD1 despite her getting 1 mark off top mark in the 11 plus. She benefitted from the size of the school and wasn’t one of 1300. We choose schools for different reasons.

That's amazing x what clubs did he do ?

I’m curious as to why you feel your decision not to choose the 4+ offer was right in hindsight, given you went through all the hassle of 11+ prep and your daughter didn’t get top tier offers?

Apologies the last message was for @Frogusha..!

Clearly not an expert in MN chat me…😅

@ISW2022 as I would always wonder if she could do better and our prep was actually nicer than Channing. As it stands were currently choosing between another senior school same level as Channing but closer to us and a grammar (changing my mind on a daily basis ) 😊

@Frogusha hmmm… I know where you’re coming from. We actually accepted our 4+ Channing offer, as it’s a great school and in an area we like. I wouldn’t be unhappy with her being there through 18. But I too wonder if she could do better. She was waitlisted for SHHS (which was my top choice) and I’m tempted to try again at 7+. Want to avoid 11+ tbh as I am scared just reading posts on here… I’ve also got a younger August- born DD and husband is set on having them both at the same school, which complicates things even further 😅