Alleyns / JAGS/ or Sydenham GDST. Which school to choose?

[tinatea]

We need do make a decision about where to send our Daughter for September 2023.

Was hoping we didn’t have to choose like this as it’s very difficult but essentially every school we’ve applied to, we now have an offer. This includes Alleyns, JAGS, Sydenham Gdst, DUCKS, Rosemead etc.

We think it will come to 3 choices. Alleyns, JAGS or Sydenham as they go all the way through and we avoid the 7+.

Our daughter is very creative and so want a school which nourishes her creativeness.

Also important to us is the pastoral care of the school. We need our daughter to feel supported and heard.
Also after opinions on (Classic question) co-ed versus single sex school? Never really thought about it until now.

Looking for parents who attend these schools or others who have an opinion. Is your child happy and thriving? Did you feel you made the right decision?

Thanks!

We are in a similar boat, JAGS, Bromley High GDST. She got in to DUCKS too but we've discounted this and she also got accepted into Babington House but again likely to discount this. Tough to decide but proximity wise Bramley high makes more sense as we recently moved to Bromley. JAGS is a lovely school as is DUCKS unfortunately I don't know much personally about Sydenham girls

Congratulations to you too! I hear you re JAGS being academically more superior. The issue remains prep for 11+ applies to both schools though as they are both straight through schools despite the girls taking the 7+ and 11+ at JAGS. Both schools will require tuition for 11+ I imagine. Did you consider Breaside? I believe that is rated the highest academically and they have a good proportion of students heading to grammar schools. We are waiting for our assessment for this end of Jan.

The junior school pupils at Alleyn’s and JAGS have guaranteed places at the senior school - they all do sit the 11+ and the school prepare them. I presume the same is true for Sydenham High.
I suspect if a child is struggling academically then the school may suggest that an alternative secondary - this suits both the school and the pupil. I would expect this to happen quite early on, perhaps start of y5, so as not to miss the deadline for secondary school application. However, I don’t know anyone that has been managed out in this way and no-one “fails” the 11+.
Although all this could change should the head And governors have other ideas.

Short version of my long answer

• no tuition is required for either JAGS or Alleyn’s 11+

Thanks
I had a chat with both heads today so not worried about children being 'managed out'
I'm more concerned that I will pick the wrong school for my child.
My impressions where that co- ed probably leads to a more rounded kid. Also impressive where Alleyns seemed to be quite academic early on.
JAGS had a play based approach which I really liked too and probably think this would suit my kid more. Worried though that a group of girls in senior school would lead to a lot of self obsession (eating disorders) and whatever else.
Also tiring is trying to find out if Alleyn's performs better at GCSE's than JAGS.
Each league table I look at, gives drastically varying results.
Anybody know if Alleyns performs better than JAGS?

Don’t rely on league tables as they are misleading. There are tons of recent studies that show league tables are nonsense and it is best to think about your child’s needs rather than the idea of an academic. The schools that are seen as high in the league table are there because they cream off the top kids at 11 plus. These kids are normally heavily tutored and go in to gain good GCSE and A level results. However, the school has had very limited added value.

In the US, the Ivy League schools are withdrawing from league tables because, on principle, they think it is misleading and leads people to make wrong career/university decisions.

You are doing the right thing by thinking about which school provides a more rounded experience rather than an academic focused experience that only breeds competitive tutoring.

My post re: 11+/run through and tuition wasn’t directed at you, @tinatea but to clarify something a PP said, in case others reading this thread weren’t aware.

You received an offer from Alleyns and JAGS already? Isn't it a bit early? Congratulations, well done! I was wondering how is this possible if the academic scharship interviews are on Friday?

This is for reception I think Lanast

Personally I think I would pick Alleyns if she is creative. Also because I prefer co ed at junior school. However I haven’t looked round the junior schools of either recently (I went to one of them and my sibling to the other but that was many years ago!) It will be possible to go to Jags senior from Alleyns junior if you decide later that the other school suits better, and vice versa. No automatic place true, but there will be a relationship between the schools that may help.

There is very little between the two schools academically, it will depend on each year’s particular cohort really. Pick on where you think they will be happiest.

Yes we received our offers. This is for 4+.

The deadline is looming on Friday and I'm still so unclear on what choice to make. I just want to run and hide.
My girl got one of 18 places at Alleyns because its now x2 classes of 18 with a 50/50 girl / boy split. At Jags she got one of 36 places.
The head at Alleyns was like a place here was like " it's like winning the golden ticket ".
Feels great but also feels like hell trying to make a decision. My girl came from a Montessori nursery and is just so independent, ahead of her years, could read and write by three. Creates her own Art masterpieces. Isn't really sporty ( yet) but loves to move her body..... and still I don't know which would suit her 🥺.

I get the sense that JAGS pre prep would suit her more as it's play based and free flow to outside which my DD would Love. The rest of the school seems a little traditional for her.
Alleyns I saw very little evidence of Art, even at reception level. It seemed a bit more academic from reception class even working to one level ahead throughout the school. ( reception kids do ks1 work in maths) Alleyn's seem more 'fun' but really less diverse. We are a mixed family so indeed this is important.
When I asked my friends who were educated at an all girls school, whether they would choose it for their daughters, and they all say yes.
Not sure what I'm trying to say here as the truth is we've been going round in circles since we got the offers and still not clear.
What doesn't help is I've never seen the senior schools of both of these choices. I called yesterday to go and see them but I don't think they can fit me in before Fridays deadline.

For now focus on your daughters needs right now. A lot can change between now and 11 (including unexpected house moves!) and whilst neither will actively prepare for 11+ admission elsewhere, some children do go elsewhere at this point.

Both schools are great. Go with your gut reaction. Where did you feel most at home? If you still can’t decide then which one is the better journey from your house?

Be aware that eating disorders are just as common in many co-Ed schools than single sex. Girls schools do not cause them. They may, however, seem more prevalent because there’s double the amount of girls there. Mental health issues can arise any place, anywhere.

I would definitely go for Alleyns. Although Co-Ed it is good for art at senior level, very good for drama and music too (as well as sports). Academics are a given in these 2 schools.
Ask the junior school what they do for gifted and talented artists in the primary bit and who is head of art etc and any links to senior school arts department.

Alleyns is the most competitive at 11 plus and it is best to think ahead and avoid that whole process entirely and focus on extra curriculars instead if a child has a real talent. I wouldn’t read into the race aspect too much, pretty much all London independents are fairly mixed these days.

Jags is unimaginative and soooo not on top of senior school bullying. Shocking no of cover teachers too.
i would avoid Jags.
all I know of alleyns is the senior school which seems fine

Don’t bother looking at league tables, academically your daughter will do equally well at either.

The main choice is between co-Ed and all girls. We strongly prefer co-Ed but it’s a personal choice. We were offered both schools and chose Alleyns and are very happy with it.

Alleyns is probably stronger on creative / performing arts between the schools, particularly music and drama. For instance, at Alleyns all students learn the cello or violin for 2 years in small group lessons which is included in the fees and mandatory. After that all can study a wind instrument so it’s a very musical school. All children do art with the specialist art teacher from year 1 and there are lunch time art clubs.

Also, @hexagonhz isn’t correct. My daughter’s year is 40 percent non-white and 30 percent + is normal across the primary school. There are a lot of mixed races children within that. You can verify this with the school and they’ll happily confirm it for you but it’s very diverse with lots of expats as well.

We are very happy so far and I’d say the school is really focused on pastoral care / well being, developing children holistically and supporting those that after being admitted develop learning difficulties. You can feel the school has a real commitment to the children and are focused on them holistically. Jags may be the same, I can’t say!

Our child could read and write at 3 as well. It’s not universal but each year there is will be multiple kids like this in each year. They are good at differentiating the work.

I do know parents are JAGs in the preprep who are very happy as well. Good luck with your decision.

@MomFromSE I'm so glad you commented.
I'm glad you are happy with Alleyns.
What put you off JAGS despite it being an all girls school is anything?
The pre prep at JAGS is amazing and I know my child will thrive there. What I'm less impressed with is the senior school. I just had a visit of the senior and it did not blow me away.
There isn't any time now to see Alleyn's senior and want to know what it's like. @MomFromSE have you seen Alleyns senior? If so what is it like?
It's nice to finally connect with a parent whom like myself, has had to make this decision.

At Alleyn's junior school, I looked for the lunchtime art clubs which were pinned on the board but there were literally 1 art club and it was for year 2 which I found disappointing. It seems like I may have to find and fund an external art club to satisfy my daughters creativeness which would be crazy given the amount the school fees are already. Oh what a pickle!
Help!!!! I'm really annoyed with myself for not already knowing the answer and my gut feeling isn't working for me today 🫣😂

Parent to mixed race children, one at Alleyn’s, one at JAGS. JAGS is overtly more diverse but Alleyn’s does have plenty of non-white/mixed race children particularly in the juniors compared with the more senior end of school but this will eventually finger through.

Whilst Alleyn’s juniors does have the strings and brass schemes, which are great, the music clubs in JAGS Prep are so varied and for all abilities, incluindo junior and senior orchestra, beginner and advanced percussion, pop band, jazz band, wind etc, busking at breaktime, summer proms in the playground and so on.
Whereas Alleyn’s music clubs are more limited in this in respect. So both schools do music well but in different ways.
Likewise drama.

As I mentioned in a previous post, children aren’t managed out unless really struggling with the curriculum and I don’t anyone who has been.

Mine could not read or write at 3! Both are very happy at these schools and are clearly within the upper level of academic ability based on school reports.
I do overall have a preference for single sex for girls based on my own experience.

What did you find less impressive about the JAGS senior school?

Thank you. I never thought of this. The chances are I'll still be rambling on until the extension deadline also.
I mean JAGS from walking around feels more diverse. There is no question.
My impression from Alleyn's is there is a little diversity and it's improving year on year.
The head tells me that they are also addressing this through the teaching staff which I am very pleased with. After all the school is located in South London and with that comes culture and different backgrounds.
Both schools are excellent and as everyone tells me can't go wrong with. Yet there definitely feels like a 'wrong decision' here, i just can't pinpoint which.

@hexagonhz We are minorities and before accepting our place asked the me school what proportion of the school population is non-white. They told me 30 percent which now that we attend the school we can see is obviously the case. Our own year group is 40 percent.

I think on a tour this might not be so obvious as a lot of the kids mixed race. I don’t think any parent who actually attends the school could say it’s not diverse.

Hi!
So is your son at Alleyn's?

Dis you apply for Alleyn's for your daughter as well but got an offer from
JAGS?

Which school do you think is better for Arts and crafts? My daughter is obsessed.
Someone else says that they have a daughter at Alleyns and she has to take external art clubs which I find outrageous given the fee amount!!

Just seemed like doom and gloom.
Bland walls, no smiles. Very straight down the middle. I don't know what I was expecting but left feeling that I didn't want this for my daughter. This was senior school.
Prep school though - happy vibes!

Art club is once a week at lunch time. I believe for each year group except Reception. Art and design and technology are twice a week.

I’m not sure any school offers art / design formally every day.

How talented is she at art?

What would you like to know about the senior school? It’s all one site and they share almost all the facilities.