What makes a good teacher? What should I expect?

[Lily246]

My DD (6) is in form 2 in a West London prep school. She has become increasingly introverted this year, and I was told at my last parent-teacher meeting that she needs to speak up when asked a question in class. I don’t remember any of her previous teachers mentioning this as a problem before. At home, she answers ordinary family-chat questions using her voice (have you seen the cat this morning?) but is reticent when I ask her about the school day or ask questions when trying to help her with her homework. She seems very nervous about her homework, and rubs some answers out several times before making a final decision. It seems she tries to hide that she is finding some things difficult, and I’m afraid that she thinks that she has ri be perfect all the time.

Her teacher is fairly young & seems nice enough, though I have heard she raises her voice and tells children off frequently, and I can’t help but feel that this isn’t helping my child’s confidence.

As far as schoolwork goes, she is my only child, this is the only school she has attended & the school is small, so it is difficult to draw comparisons regarding class work, attainment, teaching styles, pastoral care, behaviour management policies, etc. other than with her experience in EYFS & form 1.

She has been happy at the school up until now, so I am wondering whether the problem is the change of key stage, or the style of teaching.

What do you think makes a good teacher? (Have your DC had any that you thought were amazing? What was amazing about them?)

What would be your minimum expectations of your child’s class teacher, especially if they were new to the job?

Does your school have a behaviour management policy, and if so, do you think it is being used consistently? (My DD’s school has one, but I’m not sure how consistently it is applied: I am fairly sure that shouting isn’t part of if!)

If you suspected that your child’s teacher either wasn’t up to scratch, or perhaps just needed more training to become better at the job (e.g. managing the class without shouting the children into fearful submission) what would you do about it?

Honestly I’d be speaking with the teacher and make a judgement on how they act with you.

If they’re dismissive to you and don’t take your concerns seriously it’s a huge red flag.

Have other parents mentioned this at all? I hate gossiping and wouldn’t want to take anything said as definitive but it could give a bit of a steer too.

I think you’ve also got to be prepared that there’s not actually any teacher issue here and that it’s just the way your daughter is and the teacher (just another person) is entitled to their view about speaking up etc. and your daughter has attached herself to a way of thinking (or maybe a one off comment from the teacher) meaning she’s dwelling on things unnecessarily.

Definitely speak with the teacher again and try to work a way forward.

@Lily246
In the state system it’s a legal requirement to have a Behaviour Policy. These usually include discipline and sanctions too. You are correct, it won’t include shouting. I suggest you look at good state school web sites to give you an idea about what the policies contain.

However they won’t stipulate teaching style. Neither would I expect lower standards from a NQT or a young teacher. All teaching should be monitored by senior staff and they should be offering guidance to the teacher to improve teaching style. You should also ask the teacher for her assessment of your DDs progress. Is she making any? Often if a child doesn’t want to have a go at answering a question it’s because they fear being wrong. Most teachers say it’s great to have a go and there’s nothing wrong if Dc isn’t correct. So I would speak to the teacher and try and get to the bottom of the issue.

You might also have to face the fact that SLT is inept and don’t monitor the quality of learning, teaching or the staff. Is the teacher qualified? I’m not sure you can suggest training but if parents are not happy, Dc will leave. So the school should assess weakness of staff via a number of mechanisms and do something about it.

Good teachers encourage the children to be totally ok when mistakes are made. The work should be challenging, yet achievable, which means some mistakes. We all learn from mistakes! No mistakes means the work is too easy.

They should also be encouraged to be I competition with only themselves and noone else. Do they know more at the end of the lesson than the beginning? End of the week than the start? Etc

Children need confidence. I hope your child finds it there.

You can encourage these attitudes at home too.

OP. You may find other parents are not happy with a shouting teacher. Private schools do listen to parents if they need their fees. What do other parents think? Personally I think shouting is not acceptable. If she’s only got a small class why is it necessary? It is poor. Is there a child or two with SEN? Are a few Dc more challenging? Small schools can be havens for them. Is that the issue?

Can I add to this and ask is it normal in the UK for teachers to shout? We're currently living in France and really struggling with their school system. Very strict and the teacher is shouting at children ages 2.5 - 6. I find it ridiculous that this is my boys (4years old) start to school life. He doesn't want to go anymore and I'm considering home schooling for next year. We're due to move back to the UK after next summer but I'm just wondering am I being too sensitive and is this just the norm everywhere?

@Noelle0r No. It’s not the norm here. I’ve come across one “shouty” teacher as a parent and none more recently a school governor. The poster was very unlucky. It is poor practice to shout and frankly, if a teacher does this all the time, their classroom practice needs improvement. If you come back to the uk you would be unlucky to have this issue. Your Dc would be starting in y1 by then? Your bigger issue might be finding a space in the school
you want.

The teacher made a fatal error of 'criticising' your child to you by suggesting she needed to work on something. You have since decided that this must be because the teacher needs more training or is not up to par in some way. What a load of rubbish! I have often been tempted to stop giving honest feedback to parents as often it comes with such defensiveness that it isn't worth the bother. E.g. Little Johnny often disturbs others by calling out. Three days later, parent complains 'Oh he doesn't understand the work and he says you never help him'.

The French system is notoriously traditional in so many ways. Like really. But that is also French culture. It truly lives up to it takes a village to raise a child and people tell other children off in public.

As for what makes a good teacher. Better question is what does it mean to you?

I think you may have missed the issue being raised. I have no issue with honest feedback: I welcome it. I was concerned that my daughter’s behaviour had changed significantly and suddenly. She was formerly confident and was keen to share her ideas in class, and this was commented on by her previous teachers. She then gets a new teacher who is a known shouter (at this stage in the year, her shoutiness has been confirmed, since one cannot help hearing it through the classroom walls in the place designated for us to collect our children).

At the teacher’s first meeting with me, she comments on the reticence of my child to speak in class. My child becomes anxious about making mistakes in her homework or reading, in a way that she was not previously. As it happens, I have been trained in child safeguarding, as have you. Does a sudden and unexplained change in behaviour not ring any warning bells, or warrant at least the most basic of investigations? While other avenues certainly warrant investigation (is she safe in and out of school?) since the changes in behaviour relate to learning, it seems reasonable to discuss the matter with the school first. If you cannot see the importance of investigating sudden changes in behaviour from the most obvious angle, as well as the less obvious ones, then your autumn-term re-training in safeguarding can’t come soon enough.

I am sorry if you have parents of pupils who complain about everything. I know some such parents and have heard the things they say. (“There is no way my Tarquin punched William: the playground staff have blamed Tarquin for everything ever since the urinals were blocked with tissue and the floor flooded, and the TA on duty said that she saw him hiding in the loos and laughing when children stepped on the flooded floor!”) These sorts of absurdities to not mean that teachers are infallible in their behaviour management strategies and that no child every finds a teacher intimidating, lacking in empathy, or simply lacking in appropriate attention and curiousity.

In parent interviews and reports, I do not need to hear that my DD is a ‘delight to teach.’ That’s entirely subjective and one of the most overused and pointless phrases ever to grace a report. I am less interested in the personal preferences of my child’s teacher with regards to individual children (“Oh, I like this one, she’s so cute, and she always says thank you” or whatever)I want to know whether she is more or less confident in speaking in class, whether she is making progress in various subjects, whether her behaviour in class is conducive to her own learning and that of others, whether she follows the ules and is courteous and kind to others, whether she is confident enough to try new things (for how else would she learn?) and what the teacher thinks I should do, if anything, to help her to learn at home.

I would rather receive a grades-only report and a brief comment or grade on a list of expected behaviours and school values than read a load of carefully-phrased ‘read-between-the-lines’ claptrap. Standardised scores might be if given some context and analysis (some exams come with automated responses explaining strengths and weaknesses) as it would be good to know whether my child is below average, average, or above average, and how consistent their performance is over time. Simple, largely numerical reports with a few succinct words about learning behaviour, general school behaviour (respect for rules, social behaviour, whether my child is inclined to dominate or bully) would save you time, and they would be more useful to parents, since it is not ‘being a delight to teach’ does not help parents to plan for suitable secondary school applications. Please do tell your headmistress/headmaster/school governor, or whoever is responsible for deciding what is and is not included. Once parents get used to reading clear facts and numbers, they will get over the need for endless subjective praise, or seek it from more appropriate place (grandparents, doting aunts) rather than professionals. They may need some explanation about how standardised scores work (when they do work): they should not necessarily be expected to rise with each exam each year unless the child is underperforming to begin with.

Your response sounds unnecessarily aggressive, and it is interesting that you interpreted the teacher’s information as criticism rather than merely feedback about my child’s behaviour in class. I consider it as a description of a behaviour, nothing more, and the reason I was concerned is because the behaviour described represented a sudden change.

In spite of your aggressive response, I will be charitable and assume that it is because you are exhausted, overworked, in the middle of doing countless unnecessary tasks at the behest of some ambitious member of your leadership team as well as writing nonsensical phrases in reports, and you are probably frustrated with the government’s refusal to guarantee teachers a pay and retirement package that is commensurate with the duties and accountability the job requires. I don’t know whether you are striking, but if you are, I would support, rather than blame, you. Why should anyone be guilted into doing something for nothing (or an ever-diminishing rewarded)?

I wish you a restful summer break and hope that you return relaxed and less angry than you sound right now.

The teacher made a fatal error of 'criticising' your child to you by suggesting she needed to work on something. You have since decided that this must be because the teacher needs more training or is not up to par in some way. What a load of rubbish! I have often been tempted to stop giving honest feedback to parents as often it comes with such defensiveness that it isn't worth the bother. E.g. Little Johnny often disturbs others by calling out. Three days later, parent complains 'Oh he doesn't understand the work and he says you never help him'.

thCpanniers · Today 09:21
18thCpanniers · Today 09:19

I think you may have missed the issue being raised. I have no issue with honest feedback: I welcome it. I was concerned that my daughter’s behaviour had changed significantly and suddenly. She was formerly confident and was keen to share her ideas in class, and this was commented on by her previous teachers. She then gets a new teacher who is a known shouter (at this stage in the year, her shoutiness has been confirmed, since one cannot help hearing it through the classroom walls in the place designated for us to collect our children).

At the teacher’s first meeting with me, she comments on the reticence of my child to speak in class. My child becomes anxious about making mistakes in her homework or reading, in a way that she was not previously. As it happens, I have been trained in child safeguarding, as have you. Does a sudden and unexplained change in behaviour not ring any warning bells, or warrant at least the most basic of investigations? While other avenues certainly warrant investigation (is she safe in and out of school?) since the changes in behaviour relate to learning, it seems reasonable to discuss the matter with the school first. If you cannot see the importance of investigating sudden changes in behaviour from the most obvious angle, as well as the less obvious ones, then your autumn-term re-training in safeguarding can’t come soon enough.

I am sorry if you have parents of pupils who complain about everything. I know some such parents and have heard the things they say. (“There is no way my Tarquin punched William: the playground staff have blamed Tarquin for everything ever since the urinals were blocked with tissue and the floor flooded, and the TA on duty said that she saw him hiding in the loos and laughing when children stepped on the flooded floor!”) These sorts of absurdities to not mean that teachers are infallible in their behaviour management strategies and that no child every finds a teacher intimidating, lacking in empathy, or simply lacking in appropriate attention and curiousity.

In parent interviews and reports, I do not need to hear that my DD is a ‘delight to teach.’ That’s entirely subjective and one of the most overused and pointless phrases ever to grace a report. I am less interested in the personal preferences of my child’s teacher with regards to individual children (“Oh, I like this one, she’s so cute, and she always says thank you” or whatever)I want to know whether she is more or less confident in speaking in class, whether she is making progress in various subjects, whether her behaviour in class is conducive to her own learning and that of others, whether she follows the ules and is courteous and kind to others, whether she is confident enough to try new things (for how else would she learn?) and what the teacher thinks I should do, if anything, to help her to learn at home.

I would rather receive a grades-only report and a brief comment or grade on a list of expected behaviours and school values than read a load of carefully-phrased ‘read-between-the-lines’ claptrap. Standardised scores might be if given some context and analysis (some exams come with automated responses explaining strengths and weaknesses) as it would be good to know whether my child is below average, average, or above average, and how consistent their performance is over time. Simple, largely numerical reports with a few succinct words about learning behaviour, general school behaviour (respect for rules, social behaviour, whether my child is inclined to dominate or bully) would save you time, and they would be more useful to parents, since it is not ‘being a delight to teach’ does not help parents to plan for suitable secondary school applications. Please do tell your headmistress/headmaster/school governor, or whoever is responsible for deciding what is and is not included. Once parents get used to reading clear facts and numbers, they will get over the need for endless subjective praise, or seek it from more appropriate place (grandparents, doting aunts) rather than professionals. They may need some explanation about how standardised scores work (when they do work): they should not necessarily be expected to rise with each exam each year unless the child is underperforming to begin with.

Your response sounds unnecessarily aggressive, and it is interesting that you interpreted the teacher’s information as criticism rather than merely feedback about my child’s behaviour in class. I consider it as a description of a behaviour, nothing more, and the reason I was concerned is because the behaviour described represented a sudden change.

In spite of your aggressive response, I will be charitable and assume that it is because you are exhausted, overworked, in the middle of doing countless unnecessary tasks at the behest of some ambitious member of your leadership team as well as writing nonsensical phrases in reports, and you are probably frustrated with the government’s refusal to guarantee teachers a pay and retirement package that is commensurate with the duties and accountability the job requires. I don’t know whether you are striking, but if you are, I would support, rather than blame, you. Why should anyone be guilted into doing something for nothing (or an ever-diminishing rewarded)?

I wish you a restful summer break and hope that you return relaxed and less angry than you sound right now.

@18thCpanniers You are not talking about a British state school are you? What you went on a report, with reference to tests, is not going to happen. The assessment scheme for a school
is specifically assessment without grades. So you should be told what your child has achieved. What they need to improve and how they behave etc. I think a child being described as a pleasure to teach is infinitely better than telling you your child is the worst they have ever taught!

You present as being quite defensive and ready to apportion blame. The comment about being charitable seemed rather patronising too.

I think you should ask for a meeting with your child’s teacher and clarify her perception of your child’s progress and if you aren’t satisfied with the response, escalate to the next layer of management.

You have ‘ heard’ that the teacher shouts, but is that something your daughter has said, or information from another parent, or something you have witnessed? I think some clarification would help you to decide whether your daughter is having difficulties, whether she needs more support, whether it’s a personality mismatch or if the staff have noticed anxiety or reluctance to make mistakes.

Are you @18thCpanniers the same poster as the OP, @Lily246 ?

Is the school private?

I don’t think it matters

And yet it does happen. I don’t want a teacher’s subjective like or dislike of my child. I’d prefer fo know facts,

Why is that a better question? I’m no expert,

Are you hearing shouting through a classroom wall when you collect? Are you sure that isn’t a raised voice to get over lots of classroom noise (“please clear up your things class 1, and get your bags ready it’s nearly hometime!) rather than discipline-related?

Shouting to discipline kids is poor teaching. Establish facts, Approach teacher, approach HT.

@18thCpanniers I am a bit lost. Every human interaction in a classroom can be used towards forming an opinion of a child. This may affect how they are taught snd whether their behaviour affects learning. Or indeed enhances it. You seem to want to only know “facts” but assessing work is not wholly foolproof either. Maths is pretty much right or wrong but Dc can fly through the hardest topics whilst others need a lot of support for a basic concept. English and reading skills can vary a lot. At a state school, these Dc will be in the same classroom. In a private school they might be streamed. Some state schools separate out Dc for extra help but some don’t. So how a child learns and what they have accomplished are valid comments. It’s very possible to have a very bright child being a bit naughty because they are bored. Surely you need to know that and work with the school to ensure greater challenge?

Reports are never based on tests for every subject. Having a child who responds well to teaching and is enthusiastic is worth knowing. It’s a great asset for future learning and work.

You don’t think it matters if you are the OP or not, @18thCpanniers ?

It makes threads very confusing if the OP name changes.

There's been 5 people now who say their kids are scared of her or that she screams/shouts a lot.

I suppose it does. It wasn’t deliberate. More than one adult in my household, and we share devices. Stuff happens.

I would rather simply save the teacher’s time. Let them meet with me. They could make brief notes about the ‘soft data’ (keeping it objective: “Your child always does what she is told in maths and completes her work,” does not necessarily mean she tries hard, so without evidence (challenging work where that requires courage, deep thinking and tenacity, and some sort of record of this happening) it becomes a generic assumption that teachers believe parents want to hear. I don’t care if my daughter is top of the class: I want to know if she likes maths, and how she behaves when faced with a challenge. That information would be great in a voice-recorded interview that could then be auto-transcribed and save the teacher a ton of time.

And perhaps a less stressed teacher would be less shouty.

I haven’t ‘heard that the teacher shouts.’

I have heard her shout. It wasn’t intentional: it was unavoidable. And I’ve heard it more than once, at pickup time. The walls aren’t as thick as she might like, and hearing is inevitable because of where we are required to wait. Nothing defensive about it, nor blame-apportioning. Someone shouts or they don’t.

How do you respond when someone shouts at you?

Your long and utterly OTT response to my comment tells me everything I need to know. I will be charitable. Perhaps you are stressed and upset in your work. Perhaps you have problems in your family?

@18thCpanniers You won’t be told a Dc is top of the class in a state school. Quartile is most likely at private. However you seem to be ignoring parents evenings. Often one is available post summer report. You can discuss other things then. You do understand what “working at greater depth” means don’t you? This means Dc is challenged. Don’t know why you want the character displayed to do this. Some Dc just get on with it!