Local state primary or private prep?

[champagneandsparkles]

We have the choice between the local state primary or a good prep school. Prep is very expensive, would involve a commute, small school with small class sizes. Fantastic range of extra curriculars, tons of sport, looks academically strong. Long days, especially from age 8. Local state primary looks nice but uninspiring. Very little in the way of facilities, no green space. Extra curriculars would be very limited. Much larger class sizes. About a 15/20 minute walk away.

Which would you/did you choose and how did you make the decision? "State till 8" is one possibility, but concerned that DC would struggle with the transition at that point. Also considering the "state plus" model where we try to supplement as much as possible, but realistically I don't think it's possible to imitate the range of academic and extra curricular opportunities on offer at the prep even with the best will in the world. Though I'd be interested to hear from anyone who feels they successfully went down that road.

@champagneandsparkles I'm pretty much in the same thought space as you. Our state primary is rated "good", about a 25mins walk (with a child). Our prep option is a 5min walk and feels very nurturing. We honestly just keep going round in circles. Our DS is very shy, and I just worry he'll find the noise and chaos overwhelming and he'll get lost. Or maybe it'll bring him out of his shell...I just don't know! The prep option has excellent results, but one class size of about 14. That could be a great thing, or it could work against him and limit his social development. Although I did once read someone on here say that small class sizes brings about a different sort of social maturity, because they almost have to get on with the other kids even if they have nothing in common!

For us it's a £50 registration fee for the prep, so we've decided we're just going to pay it to keep our options open for now, and then send him along to one of their taster sessions in a few months time! Buy us some time and see how he gets on with it.

Apologies as this post is no help to you other than to say I'm going through the same predicament!

My DC go to a state primary school. It has no green outside space. It has reasonable facilities e.g. library, IT suite but nothing compared to prep. Extra curriculars are limited. It is however a fantastic school. We are able to supplement with clubs outside school.

DD is academic. Reception and early year 1 felt like there wasn't much challenge in some areas, mainly maths. By mid year 1 and into year 2 this has been much better. She could have been accelerated at a prep, but I see how tired she gets now and on reflection I'm happy with the pace she is going at. Plus she loves school and has good friends.

Logistically I like being in walking distance as I'd find it stressful to drive and park every day. We often walk home with others, which is nice.

We are hopefully aiming for state grammar at 11+, so do plan to do prep for that formally in year 5. Maybe less would be needed then if at prep.

I would be wary of committing to fees if it's a stretch. There might be other ways you could use that money e.g. house deposit for your child or just making life more fun now. But I do understand the thinking that giving them a good education sets them up for life, plus it can make day to day more fun e.g. with extra curricula etc.

There are obviously lots of factors to consider & others have addressed many of them already but strictly in terms of fitting in, I wouldn’t be concerned about joining at 8. There was quite a high turnover of children at the Preps my dc attended - at least 2-3 would leave each year & children would arrive. Some of those that were most settled by the end of Yr 6 had only been there since Yr 4 after arriving from State schools, while some others who had been at the school since nursery struggled socially. Whether they settle well depends very much on the child - and, to some extent, the parents!

We went with state till 8 with the plan to move for Y3. Mainly because our amazing childminder drops off there so our wrap around was sorted. But in the end we’ve all loved it so much much that DS has stayed for Y3 and is still thriving. I’m a bit of a pushy mum and make sure he accesses the French club, clarinet club etc and supplement the sports outside school. Plan for secondary was always local grammar/leafy comp so feel
happy he’s staying with his friends.

Every post here justifies the choices they make (surprise , surprise)

This idea you can replicate a prep school with an outstanding state primary and taking DC to lots of clubs, etc, isn't simply true. You can give them an excellent education this way, but its not the same as a good Prep, and they do miss out.

BUT, and its a big but, you need to find anything from 70 to 120+ K for this gilded education in soft skills.

For those on the fence , this is the crucial question, do you think that's worth it?

I did and many others, many don't, and that's OK, asking other parents isn't really the answer, you need to look in the mirror.

BUT, and its a big but, you need to find anything from 70 to 120+ K for this gilded education in soft skills

Again, having considerable experience of both, I’d say the ‘gilded soft skills’ bit is rather overstated. Plenty of children manage to spend 7 or more years in Prep (nursery & pre-Prep included) without developing strong personal skills or even making many friends.

Equally, children at good state schools with MC parents can finish primary with plenty of friends, confidence and polished manners. It really all depends on the child & the parents. Prep isn’t a cure-all.

@champagneandsparkles
I do worry that you can only just afford a prep but expect to pay for senior school that will definitely be more expensive. How will you realistic fund that?

If a prep is expensive, it must offer a lot. My DD2 went to a top prep. What we got was subject specialist teachers after y3. Dedicated rooms for music, science, art etc. Good buildings and sports facilities. Clubs after school. High quality drama and music. Obviously not all Dc are interested in everything but the whole place should buzz.

One word of warning though. DC are not all taught identically. These schools have a scholarship group. All Dc are not equal. One year DDs old prep got 55 scholarships! Not 55 different Dc of course but there’s always a large group that get nothing and they really are less valued by the school. It’s non selective but has this phenomenal outcome for some.

I actually found state schools don’t celebrate anyone bright. So I think Dc get better attention in state schools than some private schools. You really must consider destination school. DD1 went from state primary to boarding. No issue at all. She was bright though. If DC is middle of the class, you won’t be looking for a hugely competitive school anyway. So is the primary good enough? I think you won’t replicate what the prep has and subject teaching. However does it matter? DD1 found she was as good as everyone else. Top 10 in exams and assessments at senior school. DD2 loved the art at her prep snd it suited her more then state did but coat has to be a factor and destination school.

"gilded education in soft skills" ... or Early Years curriculum in entitlement?

It certainly encourages entitlement, (You're at a school, 95% of the population don't attend with superior facilities to state school) but that arrogant entitlement comes from the home surely? Prep school just amplifies it.

If your parents are entitled pricks, there's a good chance the DC will be. Look at the Rees- Moggs or Johnsons of this world, Prep school didn't turn them into men they are, their families did.

My children have both been in an outstanding state primary. They too had specialist PE and language teachers, and also for music.

It's probably worth actually visiting the local school OP, if you haven't already.

If you are doing state primary ,are sure they can play some of the private school sports - rugby, hockey, cricket, netball, tennis, athletics, swim. You may need to do these outside of school.

Ime private preps do far more sessions of pe/games a week than state primary plus as they will have the facilities they will be playing on proper pitches in full kit, swimming each week etc and doing things like shot/discus/long jump/high jump properly from an early age.

State till 8 is a fairly well trodden path round here.

Our prep mix up the classes in year 3 so everyone is starting fresh to a certain extent. Some preps even mix up every year or every other year. There are always new kids coming in in y3 and y4. Plus of course if they stayed in their state school they would find some of their friends leave.

So the idea may be less daunting than you think. Unless your child finds change particularly difficult.

The commute to the prep would put me off. Being able to walk to primary school and having lots of local friends has been very important.

The preps chasing academic scholarships don’t mix dc. They teach at a faster pace.

@ethelredonagoodday
State primaries often buy in specialist musical instrument snd sports teachers. Plenty don’t have an orchestra as they don’t have musical general teachers for rehearsals snd concerts. They might find someone to teach MFL but it’s often much more akin to taster lessons. However they won’t have specialist science, geography, history, English, music, drama, MFL, Maths and art teachers. The best preps that go to 13 do. They replicate secondary education. They are not the same as state primaries.

You rarely get lots of sports in state schools. Most parents enrol Dc in local rugby/football clubs or in other sports, eg judo, tennis, swimming, hockey etc. but state primaries should run a few sports teams. They just won’t have as much variety. Swimming is often funded for one term. Many preps have their own pools. If they don’t offer more than a state school, don’t pay for it.

We chose state primary because the parent group was better than at the local preps. Both parent group and teachers were more dedicated than at the local preps. We had outside space, country park, lots of middle class TAs, forest school, loads of music from an early age etc etc. Every year more kids get into the state grammars from our primary than any of the local preps. Down to parenting, teaching and some tutoring. No kid misses out but the whole community works hard. So state primaries like that do exist.
Nobody can really advise you because it really boils down to the exact offering at the two schools you are comparing, how rich you are, how much time you have for DC to take them places etc Plus DC themselves, certain types of kids thrive in any school, others really don’t. There are kids who develop later for whom a chilled state primary is better as well. Trust your own gut instinct.

@TizerorFizz I'm not saying that all state schools do what ours does, but in our city many do have specialists come in for certain key lessons. And they have weekly French lessons, with a specialist teacher throughout KS2.

I do agree though that the sports played at our school cannot match those provided by prep schools. My brother's kids go to a private prep and they already do regular sport with specialist teachers. But they do pay a not-insignificant amount for that!

We just take our kids to the city junior sports clubs instead...

And yep agree. Lots of our TAs are well qualified parents who want something to fit in around their own children.

Its difficult to find a chilled primary! Sats looms big. Who are these chilled parents? I’ve seen ultra competitive ones in the state schools my DD1 went to. Worse than the private parents! By a loooong way.

There are chilled primaries, we have a local one, own clothes every day, teachers called by first name etc, lots of hippy parents, the teachers don’t make a big fuss about SATS because the parents don’t. They do exist

We chose local state primary for a variety of reasons. DD is an only child, I think you get a much better very local network/friends from a state primary, almost all the children in the streets around us went, so it was really good for her socially.

It was a great school and had a good social mix, I didn't fancy her being in an exclusive environment so young - due to the fact that all our local state primary schools are very good, the prep was mainly full of children whose parents are here temporarily from abroad and the children of people who wouldn't send their child to state school under any circumstances (so I was told, not that I know first hand)

DD thrived there and got into a great private school without tutoring, so there was no issue there. I guess if you are worried on that front then you might want to go with prep as they will be prepared for the entrance exams, though I knew plenty of people who just paid for tutors outside school at a fraction of the cost of prep. I think in a way it's better the let the child find their level though, if they are crammed to get into very academic school they could end up unhappy there at the bottom of the pile.

Re the extra curricular, there was plenty at dd's school, off the top of my head there was after school drama club, netball/tennis/football etc, choir, music (she did guitar), cooking and Latin from the age of 7. She did ballet and brownies on top outside school. They catered very well for the brighter children I found.

It might be worth talking in greater detail to the state primary and seeing what they offer outside school.

My DCs Primary was pretty chilled too

It's not always as cut and dry as that, though. Our state primary has specialist music teachers for art, music, MFL, swimming (we have our own pool) and PE. There are orchestras, rock bands, archaeology clubs, forest school, Allotment, chess clubs and competitive sport from Y3. The opportunities there are so good that kids move there from the local private schools just for the facilities, the pace and challenge and the huge social aspect. From the outside it just looks like a normal state school. I firmly believe the boy way to decide is to research them all individually, visit and talk to other parents who are local.

Sorry, there are so many typos in that last post. My house is so cold I can't feel my thumbs!!

Same! I'm trying to be good and leave it till 4pm for the boiler to kick in.

I agree if I had a local primary like yours, no way I'd be spending shedloads on fees. We looked at all our local primaries , most were excellent but our local prep was way above, (in facilities)

We'll probably go state at 11+ so for us we thought it was worth the financial hit.

There are some hugely untypical primaries talked about on here. I have not seen a single school without a unifying, I worked for the LA and visited lots of schools. Simply not available. Peripatetic music staff are available for a fee.

As for all those clubs. Very very few can run to anywhere near that. Schools I knew of with swimming pools filled them in long ago. No school could afford to heat them or clean them. They simply don’t exist any more. In fact I’d love to know how many primary state schools do run their own pools. Very few as budgets are unbelievably tight. Going to a communal pool is different. DDs primary did this. Short walk away. I’ve not seen a school with an allotment either. Ever.

All these clubs take time and expertise. I’ve seen the most clubs at very middle class schools as SAH parents run them. Elsewhere parents work or are time and expertise poor. In some areas even doing a bit of MFL is a challenge. So yes, a handful of Rolls Royce schools but most people don’t get this. Anywhere near this! So people who do want more look elsewhere. You also cannot choose an all singing all dancing state school if you don’t live in catchment. So some get lucky and others get a very short straw.

It is so subjective isn't it. The point I'm making is that provision is so different across the country and it is worth investigating state options really seriously because there are some absolute gems out there. Ours is an academy flagship school which explains why it can be so whizzy - if I could wave a magic wand it would be for the government to really invest in education across the board so that everyone could access these sorts of life-enhancing facilitiesso that no-one would need to bankrupt themselves sending their children to privates as their only option.