School asked for 3-year-old to not partake in harvest festival and nativity

[GuadElla]

Our daughter attends a pre-school which is part of a school. At the start of this school year we were asked for our daughter to not attend the harvest festival as she was having trouble sitting down and being quiet. The school suspect she has ADHD or autism and we are currently on the list to see be assessed. She has delayed speech so she is currently attending speech therapy. It felt like our daughter was a burden on the school. At one point I asked if it was better for everybody if she leaves and the headteacher agreed listing local mainstream schools which may better cater for any special education needs our daughter may have.

The above conversation was on a Friday afternoon, by the Monday morning the headteacher had changed her mind, asked us to come in for a meeting and said that the school want to support our daughter.

Since then our daughter has made lots of progress on her speech, plays well with others and follows instructions better.

Pre-school have been arranging a nativity for the children to put on for the parents which we have been looking forward to. Since I signed the form saying that I’d be attending, the headteacher phoned me to ask that our daughter does not take part as she is finding the rehearsals too distressing and she is too loud so the other children cannot be heard. The offer was not made for an adult to be on hand to help or for myself to help her, just that she does not take part. My daughter is a practicing Christian, we attend our local church and she has been asked to take part in the nativity at church.

We have found this experience really distressing. Our daughter is just a normal, happy 3-year-old. It feels like she is being ostracised for potentially having a special educational need.

Anybody experienced anything similar? Any idea what we should do?

Honestly I would move her to an environment that are better equiped to support her. They don't seem to want to and this will keep happening. Your daugher isn't the problem, the lack of inclusivity of the school is. I would do this now while she is young. Ask local parents for the best environments for SEN

Sorry to hear this. I’d ask for a meeting with the head to discuss- in particular I’d want to know whether there are other activities she is being excluded from- you were only told about this one because you were going to attend.

Confirm the phone call in writing, then follow the school complaints procedure/local authority/Ofsted. Use the words inclusion and disability discrimination.

I agree with looking at more suitable settings for her as they don’t seem supportive of her needs.

the play issue is she actually distressed or is it school not wanting to manage needs? I suspect it’s the second but check before you fight. My son stopped doing plays because he did find them distressing but he was supported in other activities.

At best the school is inexperienced with children like your dd, at worst they are being neglectful. Can you move her to a different setting ?

I have an autistic 5 year old and would absolutely have moved him if the school was excluding him.

when he was 4 he took part in their nativity with a teacher sitting directly behind him helping keep him on track, and then taking him for a wander around when he bolted.

He didn’t manage to say his lines (shouted something about iron man instead), didn’t do the song with actions, didn’t sit nicely with the others.

But he was supported to take part to the extent that he could and was proud of himself and felt included.

this school just doesn’t sound very good at dealing with Sen. What are your other options like?

This post makes me feel sick, poor girl,

I don't trust that you can rely on anything they tell you and they seem "off".

And to "Ironman" mother, your son will have made his play interesting and more memorable, good on him.

They sound awful. I'd definitely look at moving her. Why leave her in an environment where she is not supported and is viewed as a nuisance?

Honestly if they want to exclude from taking part her at three when there aren't any statistics she might affect they are going to be awful once there are. Look to move her to a school better suited to cater to your child's needs would be my advice as a parent who sent both her SEN children to schools outside of catchment for that very reason.

The school have a duty to include, not exclude. I would calmly ask for a meeting so you can get a better idea about what’s happening. Ask what strategies the school has used so far to help her with the play rehearsals eg visual timetable, now/next resources, ear defenders etc. You may want to look at the SEN Code of Practice before you meet. I wouldn’t suggest blowing your top and making complaints at this point. Wait until you have all the information and a reassurance that they are supporting her. Good luck.

You should follow the school's lead on this one. It sounds like it's not going to be good for your daughter or the other children if she's fiding rehearsals distressing. They probably don't have the staff to provide one to one for her during the Nativity, and even if they did, or you were there with her, there's the chance that she'd still find it overwhelming.

I'd keep her off on the day of the Nativity tbh, then consider other schools when she'd due to start in reception. The headteacher obviously knows which schools will best cater for her, so take some advice from them.

Special needs aside, they seem to have high expectations of a three year old! I'm told that at that age I stood up in the middle of a wedding and sang Baa Baa Black Sheep......nobody batted an eyelid because i was THREE!

The leaving suggestion being taken back is because somebody twigged that would be illegal.

So they're on the back foot - I'd suggest that you email (so there's a record) asking how your daughter is going to be included in the performance, taking into account that she is awaiting assessment for potential SEND, as her telephone call, asking you to remove her for the duration of the performance on the basis that she would ruin it for the other children and parents, combined with your earlier conversation where she suggested that you removed her permanently from the school on the grounds of her potential SEND, was extremely concerning.

Agree with you on this one

Thank you everybody, this has been so helpful.

I think it’s not easy. The school does seem to be not hugely experienced to deal with your daughters’ issues. But they do seem to be trying. And as you said - she is making progress.
At the same time - they are there in the rehearsals - and I don’t think they are making it up. It is possible that the noise, etc that the play involved is causing her distress.
Why would you want her to go through that?

If you are doubting them - ask to sit in at a rehearsal to see what the issues are?

And, of course, other kids matter too. It is possible that your daughter, while making progress, is simply not there yet. And it’s not fair to disrupt other kid’s performance.

In your place - I’d try to figure out what is actually going on in rehearsals. And then decide.

She can always take part at the church’s Nativity anyway. If that is what you think is best. But at 3yo - I doubt she cares or comprehends that much about religion anyway.

I would definitely look for a different school/pre-school. To exclude a child because they can't be bothered to put a bit of extra effort in is not on.

Whilst looking for a new school I would raise a complaint. All children should be catered for. Also how can she improve in these situations if she is always excluded from them. Ask whether you can attend to help her or one of the teachers help. Say you are not allowing her to be excluded this time.

My son is speech delayed. They are due to do a Christmas singing show soon and although my son can't say all of the words he is allowed to do the actions and try to say which words he can sing. I would hope something similar should be offered for your daughter.

Absolutely agree about this. Their expectations seem completely ridiculous to be honest. My DD has no diagnosed additional needs but we watched a video of her Christmas show (Covid) & it was brilliantly uncoordinated. The school sound very precious & quite ignorant about how to support additional needs. I’m sorry for you & your daughter that they have made you feel like this.

First thing is find out if they are excluding or if they are actually being understanding.

Before my dd got her ASD diagnosis we had all sorts of problems with the school regarding certain things that caused her great distress,. The school were absolutely insistent she participate. Once in year 3 she was even threatened with the prospect of spending a week writing a 10 page research paper while all the other children worked on the choir concert. She was thrilled with their offer. She happily sat in the library researching some dry topic they assigned. The school was furious because it had been an empty threat.

If this is a private school, I think they can say they cannot meet the needs of some children. They are not, I think, bound to the SEN duties and requirements made of state schools. So if this is happening at 3, will it get any better? I would look at state options for YR.

Independent schools must adhere to the SEND Code of Practice and if they are a mainstream school, they are required to have a SENDCO.

It is also illegal for private schools to discriminate against pupils with SEND in admissions (which also includes their behaviour and exclusion policies - they aren't subject to the guidance on exclusions/behaviour, but they still have to adhere to the Equality Act).

This is a 3 year old in a nursery. I think they won’t offer a school place. They can do that I believe. They are selective. It will be interesting to see. Independents are not considered mainstream schools are they?