PTA funding after school club

[Fangsalot89]

Does anyone know if there are specific rules against the PTA funding the after school/wrap around club?
Ours has been running at a loss for a while and without the parents knowing, the school has been making up the shortfall but it’s not remotely sustainable and after this term we don’t have anything. This is not only putting off new starters but also making parents pushed to potentially switch schools.
The head hasn’t found an alternative as of yet but I guess it’s not entirely out of the question.

However, some parents are now saying the pta should be funding it.
We are a tiny school with about 120 kids and fail to ever make full capacity in our reception year so it’s not like we are flush.

I personally don’t want to not do I agree to the pta funds being used for that because it doesn’t benefit the whole school which to my knowledge is really meant to be the purpose of the PTA.

thanks x

It would have been against the constitution of our PTA as wouldn't benefit everyone. We did find after school sports clubs etc as there were available to everyone. It may depend on what your PTA rules are?

How much money would be required? Is it possible to out the prices up for after school club? As someone on the PTA and who uses after school club I don't think it's appropriate use of funds. The parents who don't use it may be less likely to donate to fundraising if it is.

Depends on the constitution. Do they even have one?

If the PTA at my kids school was funding other parents childcare, I’d be livid. Those parents need to pay for the service they require. Otherwise, with that precedence set, who do I send the bill to for my childminder?

@Fangsalot89
Usually a PTA has a constituent that allows funds to be spent on supporting and advancement of education of children at the school. Funding some of the wrap around care at the school isn’t part of the education the children receive. It’s an additional service for parents. It is of course a useful one. I can certainly see it’s a selling point. However I don’t think the school should subsidise it, or the PTA. In some areas the clubs are run by external companies. Is this an option? Or the school keeps it in house and ensures the fees cover costs. You would be advised to look what other clubs charge and fall into line of you are too cheap. Using PTA funds to subsidise child care for working parents is not education (as defined by the curriculum) and is therefore not a suitable use of parent funds: in my view.

I don't think you could get the PTA to fund it but appreciate it's hard in a small school. As soon as you have covered two members of staff it's very hard to even break even, even keeping it in house. Is there another school you could join up with? Round here schools are truly 'tiny' (one or two classes) and most ASCs serve two or three schools.

The pta should be set up as a charity so there will be a document clearly detailing what funds can and cannot be used for.

Personally I’d be pissed off if my school’s PTA paid for peoples childcare and would stop supporting it.

Why isn’t it making money? Lack of take up?

Our wraparound care makes a fortune for the school but we have 50/60 children per day (usually).

Hell no. Our PTA was asked to buy classroom chairs and it was refused flat out. PTA funds should be used to enrich the school experience, not provide basics, or fund after school provision for a small number of children.

If they are a registered charity they will have a constitution that sets out the aims of the PTA - and I suspect even with the most generous interpretation this will not fund after school care.

Ah didn’t read to the end - small school.

Ours also takes nursery children, is that an option?

How much is wraparound? Our school charges £17 per child and includes a hot meal. They make a mint. You have to put prices up and people will have to pay or lose the service.

I don’t think it’s legal for the school to operate it at a loss - they can start at a loss if it will break even over the year but a longer term loss can’t be sustained because the school funds are for the curriculum, not for after school provision. This is something your governors should be monitoring closely (assuming you’re maintained). It’s very hard as a small school and I totally get why you want to retain the after school club. Can you do some promotion for it instead? Are all parents aware that there are spaces and what activities happen etc? Increasing uptake to make it sustainable in its own right is the only real option. Good luck.

It maybe selfish but I'm not spending my time baking cakes, selling raffle tickets, donating constantly etc. to fund other people's childcare. I support the PTA to support the school and the enrichment of all the children's education.

In very difficult financial circumstances it’s perfectly ok for the pta to equip a classroom. Ours did and all Dc used it as it was a resource room with computers (many years ago now!) So chairs can be a legitimate use of money. Schools now need basics.

It really isn't. Our PTA constitution states that funds are to be spent on enhancing the school experience for all children, not by propping up a failing (because any wrap-around club that isn't making stacks of cash when in high demand IS failing) kids club or providing essential classroom hardware as basic as chairs.

Parents (and yes, it's often the parents who can't chuck a tenner at the Xmas fair) will spend hours baking or crafting for the school fair don't want their cash spent on a club which only a few will benefit from - whose working parents get a contribution towards the cost from the government.

I've been on both sides - staying up late to finish icing buns because I can't afford to be fleeced at the summer fair, and also on the PTA.

Playground equipment, trips, reading corner, vegetable garden, outdoor classroom extras, all yesses from the PTA. Subbing childcare, no.

As an aside, how the hell is wraparound making a loss? It's minimum wage for all but the boss at ours, run as a separate company but on school premises, with parents paying the going rate. If yours is running at a loss then something is going badly wrong with the management

I too don't think it is good use of money (nor classroom chairs).

If the club is making a loss then they should increase the prices or the school can choose to subsidise because keeping the club open keeps children in the school and they bring more funding which outweighs cost of educating.

OP how many kids are using your wraparound?

Our local one is £18 a day for before and after school (6pm).

For just 10 kids that's £180 a day. 4 hours of staffing x2 at (let's be generous) £12 per hour is £96, plus a couple of loaves of bread cheap cereal, value beans, super noodles. Add in rental of the school facilities and you're still clearing £40 profit a day on ten kids. Our kids club is packed with waiting lists - the management must be raking it in.

If the PTA is a charity, any funds must be used in accordance with its objects regardless of whether it is registered or not. Its objects will usually be set out in its constitution or a similar governing document.

If the PTA engages in fundraising and states the purpose for which the funds are raised, the funds must be used for that purpose.

A PTA can potentially use its funds to benefit a small proportion of the school's pupils provided it is not breaching the above. So, for example, it could provide additional funding targeted at children from a disadvantaged background.

A PTA can use its funds to provide classroom equipment provided it is not breaching the above, but I would have serious questions about the school's financial management if this was necessary for basic equipment such as chairs and tables.

I am a teacher in a small school (less that 200 pupils) and we have the same problem. Our school is in a really affluent area so I expect the parents don’t realise that the ASC can’t afford enough staff, especially when someone is off sick. The way my school gets around it is by guilting teachers into volunteering to staff ASC on an ad hoc basis. It sounds like it shouldn’t be sustainable but it’s been running this way for over a year!

@TeenDivided I don’t think that the school can fund it, even though as you say it’s a benefit to the school and may bring in more pupils and therefore more funding. The funding for the school has to be used for the school itself rather than a wraparound care provision - both the school and PTA could be on dodgy ground here I fear.

@prh47bridge
It really depends on what you call basic equipment. I mentioned chairs for a new resource room. This was a conversion from an under-used space and parents raised money for its renovation. It was the reason we did fund raising. The chairs were for children to use the new space. We also paid for lots of storage and carpets. The whole room was an “extra” just like an external classroom would be. Everyone seems to be ok for the pta to provide external seating but not internal seating? Capital budgets are woeful and as long as seating is used for educational purposes I cannot see it’s against the pta constitution at most schools. In the future with school budgets even more constrained buying furniture is certainly sensible. The basics might matter more, educationally.