6/7 yr old girls - friendships and power plays etc etc - advice/widsom requested!

[katepol]

I will try to keep this brief - my dd (I will call her Ella) was bestest friends with Louise from the start of reception. They had a lot in common, really enjoyed each others company, were very close. They are now in Yr 2.

Toward the end of Yr 1, another girl (Kitty) decided that she wanted to be Louise's friend. She told Louise that Louise wasn't allowed to be friend with Ella anymore.In fact, she wasn't to talk to Ella any more, and if she did Kitty would get very angry. Kitty is a very dominant child, oldest in the class, has some issues and is very 'adult' in lots of ways.

Louise is a quiet kind, fairly easily led, and was intimidated and yet impressed by Kitty, so has done as she was told. My DD - Ella - was obviously upset at this, and it was a while before we established that the friendship was 'over' because of Kitty's influence - up until then dd thought she had done something really wrong . Since then, Louise will not even look at Ella if Kitty is around, will not play with her, will tell Ella that she can't play with them etc etc. However, whenever Kitty is not around, Louise and Ella are back to being best buddies and just pick up where they left off.

Now, my concerna are :
(1) how do we make dd feel good about this when she sees that she is only good enough to be Louise's friend when Kitty is not there (not because Louise doesn't want to play with her, but she isn't allowed...)
(2) should we talk to Louise's mum about this. We have spoken about it before, but sort of left it that maybe their closeness was just dying a natural death. Louise won't say to her mum or teacher that she CAN'T speak to Ella, so it looks like I am being pushy, yet at the same time, Louise's mum is concerned about the power that Kitty has over Louise.

It is so hard. It seems so petty, yet is making my dd unhappy, and is also not a good situation for Louise, but I just don't know whether to intervene or not, and if so how, without coming across all precious??

Teacher is oblivious to most things and disinterested, so no hope of engaging help there. Louise is quite busy after school, but when she and Ella meet up after school, they get on so well, it seems such a shame that my dd gets ignored by her at school...

Phew - thanks for reading - that is dedication!

Going through EXACTLY same thing here - started in September - except my DD hasnt so many other friends to fall back on.
Feel that my DD is being "used" when "new friend" is not around.
My DD has lost all her confidence as a result of this. Is taking a lot to rebuild this and find other friendships.
Would concentrate on your own DD and her new friends.
Am at birthday suggestion - even DD's friend didnt go that far (although it was a fairly sizeable party).

I agree- maybe some playdates with mew friends would help?
I also agree that the birthday party situation is rather telling- obviuosly the mum could have out her foot down about inviting Ella and has chosen not too. Just goes to show that you don't know what Louise has said about ending friendship with e.
Honestly, just play it down in front of your daughter and do some fun stuff together instead.

Hello. I WAS Louise when I was small (a million years ago!).

A very forceful girl came and sat beside me when I was 7 and said "I'm your best friend now." She was very funny, lively, and although a difficult character, attractive as well.

I sort of moved on from my previous friend, and her mother went MAD. She phoned my mum, went down to the school and accosted the teacher, waylaid me after school/before school. I was still friends with her dd, but had a new best friend.

Okay, so I was seven, I was if not mean, then probably thoughtless. But I have to say that the interference of this other girl's mother was awful. I remember dreading seeing her looming into view as I knew I was going to be told off. My mother got cross with me because every other day Mrs X was on the phone saying how I'd abandoned her dd.

So my advice is to leave it. And we are all still friends, er, 35 years later!

The Kitty - Louise friendship may have a dominant / subservient dynamic, but seemingly both parties involved are happy with this. If Louise were unhappy I imagine her mother would be actively promoting the old friendship with Kitty.

This is tough for Ella, but a valuable life lesson, that some people's friendship is less loyal in nature than others. Often the dominant children have an attractive side in that they are more exciting than the reliable, loyal, nicer children.

I think you should try to boost Ella's confidence and to sympathise with the loss of the friendship, whilst actively promoting new friendships with other children. Inviting children round to play will help, as will promoting friendships outside of school.

Is this bringing up any memories of your own childhood experiences for you as this can influence your take on the situation?

This is a fairly normal situation for girls' of that age - certainly my 2 daughters experienced it in varying forms.

I would agree that Ella is being used by Louise when Kitty is not there, and I'd be inclined to encourage Ella to play more with other friends, and not go off with Louise if she's available - but by all means to include Louise in her other circle of friends. This may make Louise realise what she's missing, and if not, then Ella is better off with other friends anyway.

I do think it's out of order for her not to be invited to Louise's birthday party, and I agree that you should be busy doing something better rather than going for tea afterwards. I also don't think you should raise it with any other parent or teacher, unless Kitty starts to say nasty things about or to Ella.

My daughters fell in and out of friendship with various friends over a period of a few years, but they're all still friendly now - so they should get through it.

The talk about parties starts well before the invitations are given out. It MAY be that Ella is invited, but the 'you're coming to my party', 'you're not coming to my party' talk is affecting Ella.

(Just a thought before you assume the mum is definitely involved as well.)

Glad I read this thread because it's such good practice to try to maintain a wide circle of friends, and I've not really paid that much attention to DD2 in that respect as she comes up for reception.

Thanks again ladies

Don't worry, I am not going to be some mad obsessive over this - as I said it has been going for for months now, and I have been helping DD deal with it.
I think the party thing is actually useful - I can use it to show dd that for whatever the reason (and I am convinced it is because Louise is afraid to play with Ella because Kitty will shout at her, rather than her not wanting to), Louise is not able to be a good enough friend for Ella, so she should concentrate on her other friends.

Ella has recently said something about 2 of her close friends being annexed into Kitty's gang - secret club - but one of them only joined if she was 'allowed' to put her arm around Ella at the same time, while the other one said she didn't want to join the secret club because it was boring. Good on them, I say, and I just wish that Louise had the same balls lol!

Ella is lovely, and a friend to all, so I know she will be fine. She just clicked with Louise right from the start and misses her.

DV - I can't recall similar issues in my childhood, but I do have a concern that dd will be overlooked in things because she is kind, not too loud and a 'get on with it' kind of girl. I think this may be an example of where it happens?

Anyway, am a bit surprised Louise's mum hasn't spoken to me about the party (or lack of invite), but I know she will go along with what Louise says, so shall leave it there.

Thanks for your collective wisdom

FWIW "clubs" ie friendships clubs - are not allowed in my dd's school and teachers/ playtime supervisors will intervene if these are brought to their attention. I don't think this stops it 100% though.

The loss of a friendship is painful, so big sympathy to Ella, and it's hard for mums to see their kids suffer this stuff.

We always made sure dd asked lots of people round to play, though there was a best friend who remains so to this day (Y2) but they fall in and out of favour with each other every few weeks/months. It drove me mad at first, but once I realised DD would manage without her BFF just as well as she would with her, I chilled.

It's hard, but talking to teachers or parents won't really affect the 6/7 yr olds too much. At this stage they're mostly self oriented, so won't be able to grasp the concept of thinking of someone else for more than a few minutes. (I know some people will have very empathetic, thoughtful kids, but most at this age are pretty thoughtless...you just got to accept it as part of the growing up thang imo!).

I have 3 DDs, the eldest is 11 and youngest 8. You absolutely must talk to teacher and explain what's going on: no school will (should) allow secret friendship rules/ clubs etc. In a similar situation I did not intervene, thinking my sensitive eldest needed to learn how to deal with playground complexities. This was a massive mistake. Some kids deal with the rough and tumble of changing allegiances without it being a big deal (my DD2) but others get seriously stressed (eg bursting in to tears at prospect of returning to school half way through summer hols). The (60 year old male) principal of DD1's school, when we finally went to see him, was fantastic: the school rule is if someone says "can I play with you?" there is only one answer. They move kids around in classrooms all the time so they don't get to choose who they sit beside, sorts teams for PE are chosen by teachers etc While we should be considerate of other kids who may have "issues", this does not give them a right to make other kids lives miserable. See the teacher and principal and establish what rules they have/ might introduce. I cannot stress enough how important this is: I honestly thought DD1 was needed to see a therapist at one stage and now, afetr two fab teachers who are on the ball and she has matured, she is a joy and delight and happy with her friends without needing to be Miss Popular