Can I insist on my sons next class?

[MrsSnape]

In my sons school there are two classes in each year and they are split by ability.

Now I know I'm going to come across as a snob here but I'm just being honest, the lower class has the kids that just do not behave, they mess around constantly, cause havok in the classroom and most of them are bullies. One of them is a complete nightmare and his entire family are the same (brother in prison, younger brother expelled etc)

My son has always been in the "top" class so it was never a problem until last year when he moved into year 3 and there were too many kids in the "top" class so he and his friends were put into the lower class.

Litrally within weeks my son was horribly bullied, as were his friends. There were incidents of a boy having his head smashed against a brick wall, a boy got stabbed with a pencil, my DS had a pencil thrown at his face, fights broke out in the middle of classrooms and the entire class were brought down to the ability level of the lower achieving children...so much so that my then 8 year old DS was bringing home the same spellings as his 6 year old brother in year 2.

The standard of my sons work plummeted, he lost all confidence, used to refuse to go to school, stopped answering questions incase it made him a target and 3 children in that class left the school within that year.

Anyway I told the teacher at the end of term that if my son wasn't moved back into the other class from september onwards, he too would be moving school. They said they couldn't guarantee it but as it happened, he and his friends were all moved back into the other class when they started year 4.

Now this year has been fine so far, the work is back upto standard, there has been no bullying, the classroom is quieter and calmer and most importantly, DS is happy again.

Thing is, he and his friends are on one of the "lowest" tables which more or less means that next year he will be put back in the other class.

I simply cannot allow this to happen, not so close to him doing his year 6 SATs, its not fair. At the last open night I told the teacher of my worries and she more or less said she couldn't tell me anything as "they don't know how they're working next years classes out yet" but its been the same each year so she must have an idea surely.

Can I actually INSIST that he is left in the class he is in now?

No. move schools if this is possible or if not put in loads of extra to get him back on top ask the teacher for extra work if you have to . Best of luck .

Is it right for a state school to stream like that at primary? It's like a grammar school/sink school dilemma in minature. How can the governors allow it? Not only from the point of view of your DS but what about the well-behaved children in the other class who are less bright who have no chance of changing classes and who can't possibly be learning anything?

I know, I'm talking to a mum now on msn who's son is in that class and he behaves but the standard of work is poor. The class is also split with year 3 so the work is year 3 ability and apparantly they never get anything done because of all the messing around. The main culprit has taken to calling her son a "paedophile" for a 'laugh'.

It sounds like a bad school. If I was you I would remove my son from that kind of situation.

I think its a terrible way to spilt the year group and would probably move my child to another school, if this was an option. Our school has 2 classes in each year group but they are split equally. There are children of all abilities in each class.

I would ask the school why they split the classes this way and point out to them the effect it is having on the other children.

I am a governor at our school and there is no way in the world that we would countenance that sort of arrangement. It is simply not appropriate for a primary school. I would be lobbying the governing body to that effect if I were you. Also contact the Local Authority and find out who your school's education adviser or School Improvement Partner (if you have one of those yet) is and register your concerns with them.

When I worked in a 2 form entry primary, we made sure that classes were split as fairly as possible - friends together, kids with behaviour/academic/ attendance issues in diff classes to make sure the groups were balanced. They were streamed for Maths & English so that the TA could be with the kids who most needed support for that lesson.

I don't think it is good practice to stream the way you have described.

Have you spoken to the Headteacher? Maybe the teachers feel as bad as you do about it but don't feel that they can say that? I think I'd be inclined to begin with arranging a meeting with the head and if that didn't get me anywhere, I'd write to the chair of governors I think.

What a strange system your school have. By streaming as they do they effectively have one well behaved 'intelligent' class, and one which is under-performing.

My ds's junior school is a 3 form entry. (90 children in the year group) Each class is mixed ability. They are however streamed according to ability for literacy and numeracy. Ds is at the top table in the bottom stream for both. (so effectively for literacy and numeracy he is in the bottom 30 for both)

We have just had parent's evening last night. Both literacy and numeracy teachers say the group is a little too chatty but other than that behaves and works well. And despite being the lower steam perform Y4 work.

So I would be very worried about both the behaviour of the children at your ds's lower stream class, and the fact that in Y3 they were doing Y2 work.

I personally would move schools.

Sorry if that is not helpful

Sounds really odd and quite horrible. We have two classes per year, but as others have said they are split with a fair balance of boys/girls, high/low achievers, early/late birthdays, sporting/other talents, behaviour etc. The children in the whole year group are set for maths and English, not only is that 'right' in that it is easier for teachers to teach by ability and for those children who need support to get it, but it also means children's own strengths and weaknesses are recognised - so for example there are children in the top set for maths but a lower one for English, or vice versa. If you have a blanket streaming policy like you've described, that just doesn't happen.

However it also sounds like there are other problems at the school, not just a streaming issue.

Agree it's very odd, my younger two are still at infant/primary level, the Y2 one is a 2 form entry and the classes are evenly mixed but the children are on tables according to how they are getting on, the Y5 boy is a three class entry and again classes are mixed, with differentiation within the lessons for more able/less able pupils, and then extension/support groups across the whole year for maths/english.
It's almost as if your school want to set up some of the kids to fail, and if the children are all aware they are in the bottom class then the school are undoubtedly creating some oif the behaviour problems themselves.

I really feel for you MrsSnape and agree with other posters that if he gets moved you should move school. It sounds as though even if you get it sorted this year it could be changed again next which isn't good. Do you think the school are doing this to keep their results up i.e. concentrating the higher achievers in top class? I really don't understand why there is so much inconsistency in schools these days surely there must be a recommended way that these things are handled. Good luck.

Move! Or bring the whole subject of streaming to the notice of the board of governors. POint out that this is not how streaming is normally done, very far from it!

Streaming can work in primary school if it is done intelligently: for a few subjects only (usually maths and literacy), with 4-5 groups so the demarcations are less sharp, and with a lot of fluidity so children move up and down according to their needs. What you are describing sounds like the recipe for anarchy.

I thought 'streaming' meant kids are put in ability selected classes and there they stay for all their lessons; 'setting' means kids are put in ability appropriate groups for individual subjects hence you may be in the top set for maths but the middle set for Literacy, etc. If that is the case, setting and streaming are 2 different things. I don't approve of the former but the latter can be very helpful, but only if there is sensible movement between the sets on say a half termly basis.

In regards to the OP- you'll be on a knife edge for evermore- you probably need to consider another school. You won't get a straight answer from the school- they'll have been 'burnt' too often in the past to make ANY sort of promises.