Admissions experts: Turns out the school we applied for, and weren’t offered a place at, had places but we weren’t offered one? - advice please? Can we challenge this?

[EmanresUsernamE]

We applied for primary earlier this year and DS started in reception in September.

We got a place at none of our choices and were offered an infants we didn’t really want on religious grounds but there was nothing else available so accepted it. DS started in September. Historically our 1st choice school has always been over subscribed so didn’t appeal as thought, based on infant class size and no reasonable reason for DS to “have” to go there, it would be pointless. We didn’t appeal for the others either (bad move). Although we are meant to be on waiting lists and haven’t heard anything about places.

Just found out from a friend who has this years (2023 entry) ‘starting school in xxx’ booklet, which publishes the 1st, 2nd and 3rd preferences plus total offers made on offers day for 2022 entry, that out 1st choice wasn’t full. (Our 2nd and 3rd were, more 1st choice than PAN). For the record, we did, or thought we did, make sensible choices, 3rd choice is our closest school and we should have got a place but we just didn’t.

Our original 1st choice have a PAN of 60. They had 52 1st choice as well as some for 2nd and 3rd and on offers day they offered 57 places. That means they had 3 left to give out.

Based on this, we should have got one?

Do I have grounds to challenge this?

I plan on ringing the school/ school admissions team but would rather do so armed with some knowledge/solid facts on whether I’m being mad or not first or whether there are other factors in play.

It's worth investigating but it's also possible that the 57 they are referring to is places allocated under the general admissions criteria and excludes places given under EHCP (and possibly children from care). It would be a confusing way to list the numbers, but I have seen it done.

Worth asking the LA about though.

(Happy to take a look at the booklet if you want to PM the name of the school)

Email your school admissions dept at the council with the info you've given here and they'll tell you. I'm quite sure if you could've had a place you'd have been given a place though.

It probably means they were expecting three children on ehcps to join and had already factored those into the number of offers, but they didn't in the end, so the places went to people who had put the school 2nd and were highest on the waiting list (where you had already accepted your child's place at the other school) OR they had originally put it down as first, then changed it to second right at the last moment; there's a gap of about six weeks between sending the rankings (where a school is their own admissions authority) and the LA making the offers where the school can't make any changes, but parents can.

@NeverDropYourMooncup I'm a bit confused by some of your post. OP has said that she was meant to be on waiting lists. Accepting a place at another school has absolutely no effect on your position on a waiting list, and it is almost always advised to accept the school that you are offered, so that would not be a reason for others to be offered the place above her. Also, why would the extra places have necessarily gone to people who listed the school 2nd? People who listed it 2nd (and 3rd) could very easily have got the original places over those who listed it first if they met the admissions criteria better and didn't get into their first choice, as there is an equal preference system and schools cannot and do not prioritise people who put them first. Apologies if I have misunderstood what you were trying to say.

I did wonder whether there were other factors in play (EHCP/looked after children). I just wanted sure which I why I didn’t want to start a row with the admissions team without knowing the true facts.

I think I’ll ring LA school admissions as advised and ask what the ‘number of places offered on offers day’ number means.
Whether it’s all the places offered, or, places offered under normal admissions/excluding EHCP and looked after children.

I think after clearing this up we will know whether to take this further.

@PatriciaHolm, thank you for offering to look over the numbers. I think I’ll do the above first and clear up what it means and may take you up on the offer if it turns out it’s all the places offered if that’s still ok with you.

@LockInAtTheFeathers, that was my understanding of how it worked. That’s why we accepted the place we were offered and went on the waiting lists for the others.

Personally I wouldn't waste my energy especially if your child is happily settled in their school.

Shouldn't affect it, but some LA systems automatically trigger a 'no longer required' when a place is accepted for other years and have to make an exception for the transition ones.

The message could have 'can you offer 57 places?' That was done, then once they were accepted (which takes time because it's relying upon the parents to accept the places), there could have been another request 'can you offer another 3, please?' which meant they were offered on criteria + distance (the only legal tiebreaker) - if that happened between the OP accepting a place and requesting to go onto the waiting list/the waiting lists being actioned by the LA and then transferred to the schools, it could conceivably mean it went to the 3 highest on the WL because she wasn't on the waiting list at that point.

Or they just came in at a higher ranking for being looked after children, for example - if their first preferences were for faith schools that only give children of that faith or looked after/adopted into families of that faith and they weren't, they'd actually still come below the other children who were on faith based offers; so they ranked higher at the OP's preferred school even though it was their 2nd choice; they could have been category 3 at their first choice as LACs not of that faith and category 1 in the 2nd preference, for example.

Apologies if I'm not making much sense. It's been very busy this week and I was just back from the gym, so was trying not to fall asleep on the sofa!

Little bit late with my update but it’s been a busy couple for days.

I rang the LA earlier in the week and asked how they determine the ‘offers made’ number.

@PatriciaHolm you were 100% spot on. The number is the offers made in general admissions which may or may not include looked after children and EHCP. I was told the school might have been told to expect a certain number of children so their numbers were dropped as a result.

I questioned why other schools hadn’t had this drop in numbers published as assumed they would also have children in these categories. The answer was, it depends on whether looked after, EHCP, or other expected children were offered a place under general admissions because they applied on time and there were no changes to circumstance. In a small number of cases, (like ours I assume), it is possible the 3 children admitted had changes of circumstance which the LA, school and potentially other services, were aware of but their places were held rather than given out on offers day as there was no final confirmations. It’s a bit vague but obviously (and correctly) no details were given.

The LA assured me, if the places had later become available they would have offered the places from the waiting list. They further informed me, all 60 places in the school were taken up and we are on the waiting list. We’re actually 1st on the waiting list so that’s a good sign.

To an extent/in general I agree with you.

But 2 things

Firstly, I wanted to know whether we had been (for want if a better word) ‘short changed’.

Secondly, DS was allocated an infants school we didn’t apply for. Yes, he’s happy. But it’s very very unlikely he will go to the juniors as it’s not automatic transition, we don’t meet the religious criteria and, unlike the ‘inadequate’ infants, the juniors is a ‘good’ school which is named on the admissions criteria for one of the secondaries so it’s oversubscribed.

Moving DS now to a completely different school, rather than in Y3 when he is very settled with friends etc, would be preferable. But we will deal with whatever happens, as we did with the infants. It won’t be the end of the world.

Thanks for updating. Sometimes junior schools have slightly bigger intakes than the infants and that means most of the infant children can be offered a place. However, first on the waiting list sounds fantastic. Hopefully you will get a move soon. In infants they love a new child and by end of juniors they will barely remember who joined when, so I would 100% move in infants for the right school.

I appreciate that things have moved on since you first posted this, but you’ve done the right thing in checking. Falling rolls in my area mean that some schools have for the first time been under-subscribed and have not filled all their places on national offer day.