State schools, teaching and private schools

[viio]

Could anyone ahead some light as to what is happening with teachers in state schools. So many are leaving…. I find that my children’s education is being affected suddenly after being at the same primary for several years they now have inexperienced teachers, behavioural issues in the class, bullying and I could go on and on…. This was a really good state school. Anyone finds it’s the same happening in their child’s school?

Perhaps not the right time to transfer them (they only have a year left) to a private school but I am not sure that staying is good either…

My neighbour teaches in the local top private school they are having the same issue. Lots of teachers are leaving the profession you are right it’s a real worry

Schools can go from very good to bad very quickly (both in the private and state sector). Change in head, a cohort of teachers retiring/leaving (it’s not unusual in any workplace for several people to leave once one person goes, it makes people re-consider their priorities). Sometimes all you need is one or two children in a class and they can really alter the dynamics.

Lots of people will come on saying teachers leaving in droves. There was an article in Schools Week in June, which highlighted that teachers leaving the profession is still lower then pre-pandemic and there was a boost during Covid in terms of recruitment and retention.

So if you aren’t happy with your child’s school then move them, but I don’t think you can say this is a state versus private issue. There are pros and cons of both sectors for employment. Currently a lot of private schools are leaving the Teacher Pension Scheme which is a real concern to many teachers.

Teachers are leaving in droves because of the way they are treated.
Micro managed and not trusted. Given no autonomy. Pay isn't worth the stress. More and more children with significant and complex needs just being stuffed into mainstream classes without support (or enough support). All the support systems that used to be around (Children's centres, CAMHS, Family Support Workers, Health Visitors, Social Care now stripped to the bone so not able to offer support that way) and schools expected to pick all of that up. Yet schools budgets diminish in real terms.
Schools can't afford experienced teachers.
New graduates also don't want to enter the profession. Why would they ?

It is a national problem.
The retention has been an issue for years and years and the government think they can resolve it by bribing new graduates in rather than having a look at why teachers don't want to stay in the profession. Of course they take the money but then don't stick around.

Trouble is, people don't kick up a fuss until it directly affects them.
Just like the lack of police, the lack of GPs, the lack of capacity in A&E, and then the knock on effect that has on ambulances not being available. We could go on.... lack of barristers to work with people on legal aid....lack of prison officers.... etc etc

And GPS are poorly paid are they? They leave because their pension are so generous, they are taxed on it when they get to around 55 years old and over £1 million in their pension pot. So they only work for 30 years or less as a GP. Teachers can be well paid if they stick around. Become that well paid Head! At least teachers get paid. Criminal barristers are out of pocket! They actually work for £0.

Going back to teachers leaving. When I was a governor we monitored why. When we could! Several reasons: moving for DHs job. Not coming back after maternity leave. Giving up to look after old parents. Sometimes moving to another school for promotion or sideways snd going to work as an advisory teacher or becoming a SEN specialist. Going to a school closer to home was also quite common. I’m struggling to think of anyone who didn’t stay in education other than failed NQTs.

Not sure primary teachers get a golden hello. They are not maths grads or working in a shortage subject. Money does play a part but teachers get promotion quickly if they are good.

But if you look at the figures @TizerorFizz (national data rather than one school)
over 11% of NQTs leave within first year.
1/3 have left within 5 years.
here

@Kite22 thats very interesting and of course I can see how that may affect matters. Yes same issues are currently facing prison officers (from what I know) they are so short of staff that they risk their own health and safety hence big turnover, as well as clearly lack of pay which plays a part.

I imagine teachers are the same lack of pay and other resources are probably playing a big part. However it deeply worries me what sort of chance do children have with teaching that is not adequate and sen children not given support.

I did offer some years back to do some voluntary work with a school but was rejected which was strange as I knew they needed it and I was probably more qualified then the people working there…

@MsTSwift that is bad, but I guess at least there they have less (albeit not that much) children per class and maybe TA rather then 31 children with one very junior teacher.

@CoffeeHousePot That’s interesting and definitely would affect the private sector too so yes but I am hoping paying schools will try to do a bit more as they have a bit more resources… although I could be wrong.

@TizerorFizz you are right teachers could potentially get much better paid. A friend of a friend has just been offered a deputy job after 12 years of teaching, but has worked hard and as you say persevered at it.

so tricky because at the moment I am working so hard on trying to help my children and fill in the gaps whilst not to over work them as after all they spend majority of their day at school. This is totally stressing me out as I can see myself having to get private tutor which means their working day will not end because as soon as they come home it will be back to working with a private tutor. And as for the discipline at school - it’s chaos
it takes a real talent or experience to control so many children and teach at the same time on your own. I know I couldn’t do it…. Huh!

Is the article that kite linked to the one you mean? Doesn't look so rosy to me...

It’s not a race to the bottom and just because barristers also struggle doesn’t mean teachers are fine.
A lot of public sector jobs are piss takes currently and the ones that aren’t coping are those which recruit intelligent people then significantly undervalue their skills and potential so they get jobs where they feel like there is a point to going in. I was going to return to teaching. I really wanted to, but I didn’t in the end because I would be paying over 40k a year in childcare and after 10 years on the job still being told my offered salary is M1 (about 25k) or nothing because schools can’t afford to pay. I am not a charity and can’t pay to work.
Its cheaper to be a SAHM or start a business and see where it goes because at least I’m not costing anything.

@WomenShouldWinWomensSports
That old argument! Barristers are self employed. No fancy pension for them with massive state contributions. Teachers are not well paid but they are not the worst either. They do have salary progression and no one earns £0. Let’s at least be honest!

Your salary wouldn’t be the NQT level after 10 years! Did you never do any performance management? We expect to give everyone incremental progression if they have met their targets. Which they do and provide the evidence. Or have you just done supply? What you say makes no sense financially. Or are you not qualified? Something doesn’t add up.

It used to be the case that if you moved school, they had to pay you at the point on the scale you had already reached. That's no longer the case.
So if a teacher is returning to teaching after a career break, the school is perfectly entitled to offer only M1, and if they have the alternative of a recently trained new starter and the budget is tight, that's what they're going to do.

It might be better than nothing for a teacher who has been out of teaching for a while, and they would be able to work up the scale again. However it does depend on circumstances - for people nearer retirement, going back in on a lower salary might reduce their pension.