3 form or 1 form entry

[cafedesreves]

Obviously there are so many factors other than school size to consider, but primary schools round us are usually huge or tiny. I'm trying to work out what would suit DS more. He seems to be v able at the moment and will be old in the year, so hoping for a school that can stretch him.

Sorry... question is what would you pick and why?

You've already said he is able, but is he confident? If he is able and confident, then I would say the 3 form entry. If he's shy then I'd go for the 1 form entry.

Dts went to a one form entry because it was the only choice. They loved it, pastoral care was amazing and it really felt like a little family. The step up into y7 has been an adjustment, their year group is 4x the size of their primary but they have settled really well after a week.

I wouldn't worry about the intake but go with what school you prefer.

Do you have a realistic chance of getting a place at either school?

Have you been to physically look? When we were looking for a place for September 22 entry on paper and from looking at the website I was convinced the 1 form school was the right school, but when I looked around it just didn't feel right.

I did also dismiss the 3 form entry. It was very chaotic and I just felt DD would be lost in what felt like a v busy environment. We went for a 2 form which felt like the best of both.

I was concerned re friendships in the 1 form.

If all else were equal I’d choose 1 over 3 every time. While a 3 form entry isn’t detrimental to a lot of children it means , in my experience, they’re less likely to get chosen for plays/teams etc. Less swimming time too. Lottery every year which teacher they get , theoretically educational experience should be the same but not necessarily in practice. Prefer the family atmosphere of a one form entry.

Everything else being equal, I would go for the 3 form. Mine are at a 3 form and the advantages are:

• More pupils so easier to create balanced classes in terms of boy/girl and other factors. Option to switch classes around if there are big problems (although this hasn't happened yet where we are). Although I accept this can be a negative too, as people often don't like change.
• Cross year grouping for phonics and other things as needed
• 3 teachers per year allowing them to plan different areas, so reducing workload and allowing more specialisms. It is easier for a teacher to remain up to date in their specialist area than everything
• School has more funding which is helpful in terms of resources e.g. IT lab, playground equipment.

I think a lot of the benefits of a 1 form school is around community and getting to know everyone. Our school has a community, but I imagine it is easier for teachers to know all the parents in a smaller school and potentially everyone will have had Mrs X in Reception etc. This is brilliant when it goes well and potentially stifling when it doesn't! Also the school may feel less daunting for some children, and have more mixing between year groups.

I'm very happy with our choice of 3 form entry, although obviously in real life it will depend on other factors in the school too.

Another point that is often made is to think about your child as an 11 year old. People often choose cosy schools for a 4 year old, but they may benefit from a bigger pool and more variety of activities etc when they are older.

Following for the good advice you're getting. We have a similar but more extreme choice due to oversubscription and location, 3 form entry or a tiny school where there are 10 kids in each year taught in just 2 mixed year classes! Ds is also pretty able and old for year.

School feel is going to be important for us, also wraparound care (virtually none at smaller school, oversubscribed at bigger school), and attainment (much better at the tiny school).

We are also looking at yr7 destinations and thinking that the bigger school might set ds up better for yr7 as he'll know more children. Kids from the smaller school tend not to go to our (currently) preferred secondary. (Planning ahead!) But the school run would be a lot easier to small school.

Such a difficult decision!

One thing to bear in mind is that school sizes can easily, and quickly change. DS2 started at a small, one form entry school. By Y3 they were expanding and his class got to spend the year being taught in a tiny ICT suite room that was less than ideal, while Y4 got the equally small repurposed learning support base.

They move schools for Y5 in this system too. The middle school is now having to expand from 4 to 6 forms. And the high school takes 100 children over PAN every year (no idea where they put them!)

you never know. And it may be that you feel a change from single form to 2 form entry is a bigger shift than from 3 to 4.

For a confident 4 year old, a 3 form without doubt.
Yes, it can be better when they are very small in a 1-form, but it becomes stifling further up the school.
3-form advantages: more choice of friends, more extra curricula activities, often better funded due to economies of scale, ability to have specilist teachers - our teachers shared the IT, Science and humanities teaching.
It is not too big to have everyone know everyone - our old headmaster could name every child, and most of the parents.

Much bigger shock going to secondary from a 1-form. Our secondary is 3 times the size of our 3-form entry. I cant imagine going to a place nearly 10 times bigger than the primary you are used to.

Thanks everyone! This is very useful. He's confident and will be 5 when he starts as birthday beginning of Sep.

Definitely go & visit them both. I thought I knew which school we were going to send DD to, visited & really didn't like it, despite it being out catchment school, rated Good, friends had good things to say etc.
We actually went for a tiny village school (sub 50 pupils in total) - we're semi-rural. It is amazing. What the school lacks in facilities it makes up for in providing them externally; the whole school can go on school trips together; everyone knows everyone, so friendships span year groups & the school community is incredibly important.
Our children do swimming every week from Yr2; Welly walks & Forest school happen weekly; no-one is left out of sport or plays etc. Residentials happen from Yr3 & as most feeder schools into the local secondary are small too everyone is in the same position going in, knowing a few people.
Your situation OP is slightly different as you're looking at a 1-form primary but small schools have many benefits.

We chose 3 form entry last year. Mine are now in year 1. They are outgoing and love having a large pool of friends. I think it must be hard later on if it's a single form year group and there are friendship issues.

My daughter's currently in a very small village school - one form across years R, 1 and 2. It looks like September she'll be moving to the local junior school which is 6 forms a year - 180 kids per year group. That's the size of the secondary school I went to - such an enormous leap. But perhaps it's make the leap at 11 easier?

Absolutely the one form entry:

Planning
One form means the teacher is planning everything themselves. Whilst that means a greater workload for the teacher, it also means that he/she is in control of everything and can tailor everything to the needs of the class rather than working from someone else's planning or using someone else's resources. They can also progress at the right rate for that specific class rather than having to rush or slow to meet the pace of the others.

Not setting
Multi-form entry schools tend to set or stream after a certain point, meaning that the teacher that may take your child for core subjects may not be the teacher that knows him/her best. This can also affect how effective other lessons are at bringing on core skills (for example, if the same teacher has a child for Science and English, they can ensure the work in Science builds on the work in English).

Smaller school
Single form means there will roughly 30 kids in each year group and 210 in school. Your child is 3.3% of their year group and half a percent of the school. He/she is more likely to be known by each member of staff and his needs and personality understood. Whilst you hope this doesn't happen in any primary school, they are less likely to be a "number" in a smaller school.

More opportunities
Your child is more likely to be involved in sports teams, leadership positions, etc. which can help bring out more from them and develop them outside of academics.

Mine was at a single form entry school.
Disadvantages:

• fewer extra curricular clubs
• less choice of friends if your child is quirky or just not into 'standard' stuff.
• smaller PTA less able to raise funds for extras
• not able to mix up classes if there is a personality clash
• more chance of unbalanced boy/girls (DDs class had only 6/7 boys the whole way through)

Often we choose based on what we experienced as a child - whether we ourselves went to a small school and loved/hated it or whether we went to a large school and loved/hated it.

I went to a 1 form entry primary school - yes less choice of friends in the year, but then I made friends with anyone in the school - mainly year above, year below and my own year group. Huge community feel, everyone knew everyone. I then went to a school x10 larger at Year 7, wasn't hard to adjust, it was just an exciting new adventure!
Plus each year when moving up to the new year group, we knew we'd all be together, in 2/3 form they mix up the classes each year so having to adjust to different children in the class each year (might not be with all of their 'best' friends) as well as a new teacher.

I would personally always choose 1 form entry.

We chose 3 form entry and it has worked well for us (now 3 DC).

Main point is the ability to not be in the same class as a particular child (teachers like to avoid clashes just as much as parents), and for one of our DC a chance to find his people- the bigger cohort meant he found a few like minded kids (in nursery he didn't really click with the others).

It's so tough as I'm a teacher and all the open mornings are in school time! How do others do it?

DDs have attended 5 Primary schools. Sizewise my favourites have been the two form entry ones (which isn't useful to you!). The smaller ones ended up being a bit claustrophobic. Limited clubs etc due to numbers, but more chance of being in the team (both the football teams and netball teams were mixed for example, due to numbers). The bigger schools had a wider range of opportunities, but not everyone could do everything....or even anything.

Friendship issues could get hairy in the smaller schools... a falling out could be quite dramatic for example. In the larger schools there was someone else to be friends with.

Academically... no difference really. The larger schools more likely to have specialists (their past two schools have had actual PE teachers for example, not just the class teacher (used for PPA).)

If I had to chose... 3 form.

(I consider one or less classes per year small, 2-3 classes average and 4+ classes large... I know of 6/7 class Primary schools!)

Don’t just think about when they are 4, but when they are 11 and finishing primary.

One Form entry is lovely in infants, but in Juniors, bigger is better. Bigger schools have more staff and more opportunities. They have more ability to cope when a staff member is off sick or in maternity. They can arrange sets by ability more easily and there are less likely to be tricky friendship problems when there are more children to play with and make friends from. For sport there’s more ability to get teams out. Yes, you’re less likely to get the lead part in the school play, but in balance, for most of primary, id say bigger is better.

OP - ring the schools & see if they can accommodate you either out of school hours or when you can get some time off?
I know our Head is more than happy to show prospective parents around - but appreciate that's not always the case. Our Head showed me round personally, during the school day (they weren't holding an open day as they knew they were nearly at PAN that year).

Is one school closer than the other? IMO that's the most important thing!

I am a school governor and sit on the school's resource committee. A full 3 form school all things being equal has tons more resources. Of course, proximity and quality of pastoral care and teaching trump other considerations.

Send your husband/partner?