Appeal Year 2 In-Year Admission?

[WinifridSanderson]

We have been house hunting for quite some time, to do a big move to be closer to family. We’ve finally had an offer accepted on a house and looks like it’s all moving forward.

However, we’ve just found out the two nearest schools are completely full in my DD’s year, Year 2. The new house is close to one of the schools, they’ve said she would be at the top of the waiting list.

The only nearby school that has space is in special measures and is tiny, mixed year groups and there are only 6 kids in Year 2. It sounds like this school is improving but to be honest I’d be really disappointed if she had to go there. We don’t have any friends in the area, I think it would be hard for her with such a small friendship pool and I think it would be harder to feel part of the community where we’d actually be living.

However, obviously the nearest school is just full - presumably there wouldn’t be any point in appealing this? Someone at another school recommended appealing if she doesn’t get in but they can’t magic a space?

I also really don’t have a feel for how often spaces become available. If she started at the tiny school is there likely to be a good chance she get into our preferred school to start Year 3 there? We have a younger one who would be starting Reception next year too, would that help her case for Year 3? I assume younger one would be pretty certain to get in there as we will be so close.

I’m nervous that she could wait a very long time to get a place as the property market is so tough that I think most people are staying out now.

In Y2, Infant Class Size rules apply (you cannot exceed 30 pupils per teacher, unless a pupil is formally excepted from counting in the total).

You are highly unlikely to win an appeal because if the school is full it's full (only grounds for successful appeal are administrative error or a decision is perverse - eg your child uses a wheelchair and it fits through all the doors in this school but only half those in the allocated school)

However ICS rules do not apply for Y3, at which point you can appeal on "balance of prejudice" ie the detriment to your DC from not attending is greater than the detriment to the school and its pupils from going over numbers.

Starting at the other school will make no difference to your chances on the waiting list or at appeal

How big is the school and how stable is the local population? You can’t predict when a space will come up, but a larger school in an area with lots of job volatility/mobility will be more likely to have a space come up mid year than a smaller school in the kind of area where most families have been settled there for generations.

You move, sit on the waiting list for the preferred school and take the place at whichever school is offered.

@meditrina many thanks, that’s what I thought.

@NoodleSnow I’m not sure to be honest. It’s a very popular, picturesque town that I think is probably a mix of people who have been there for generations and newcomers (it is the type of place people move to out of cities as it is nice and with lots of amenities). I’m a bit concerned we could end up on the waiting list for a long time, which is why I’d be interested in how likely it is that she’d get in on appeal at the closest school when she gets to Year 3. There are very, very few houses coming on RightMove for example.

@RudsyFarmer yes I think that’s our only option isn’t it. I was thinking of looking at a private school too but too risky as would struggle to pay for it long term if she didn’t get a space at the nearer preferred school by Year 3.

I’m totally fed up with the whole moving process to be honest. We waited about a year for confirmation that DH could WFH more permanently, it’s taken us ages to get an offer accepted, during which time interest rates have risen/ cost of living crisis, various other challenges and now this. But I’m also aware that if we don’t do it now we’ll have an even harder time getting two school places rather than just one when younger one has started school.

We had exactly the same issue when we were attempting to move. We’d find a house we liked, all local schools full. Was a nightmare. We’ve decided to stay put now.

@RudsyFarmer I honestly don’t blame you. I am very tempted to just give up at this point. But we don’t want DD to go to the secondary school where we currently live so need to move at some point (or start saving for private 😭). Maybe I’m clutching at straws but really hoping she’d be likely to get into the preferred school for Year 3 even if it was on appeal?!

It would be worth finding out the Year 3 class sizes in your preferred schools.

If they usually have a couple of successful appeals, you will see Y2 classes of 30 and Y3 classes of 31/32, and that could give you hope.

Also worth considering if the area has any ‘old fashioned’ prep schools or 7-18 private schools, or privates schools that do start younger but add a class or 2 at 7, in which case there is likely to be a movement from state to private at that point (‘state till 8’). School secretaries, if you cultivate a hood relationship with them, are often goldmines of useful information about typical turnover rates / typical moves at the end of KS2. I remain deeply thankful, nearly 15 years on, to the school secretary who kept me sane while moving area and finding school places for 2 children….

Sibling priority, btw, sometimes only works ‘downwards’ in age, and it is worth scrutinising the admissions policy carefully to see whether a sibling joining Reception would result in any priority being given for Y3.

Thank you very much @cantkeepawayforever, coincidentally I have literally just emailed the school to ask what their current Y3 class size is! I think I may be irritating the school administrator, I spoke to her yesterday and I think she was just trying to get me off the phone “sorry I can’t help you, we don’t have a space” type thing. I imagine they are very busy in fairness. I did ask about whether there was much movement and she didn’t want to commit to anything (understandable).

I’ve also been in touch with a private school, but I don’t really know what the deal is there if she’s at a private school when we appeal? Can’t really make the case for the state school having better facilities but I suppose the same arguments re being with her sibling and part of the local community etc would still be relevant.

I did check and they have said that the sibling rule does apply with the younger sibling so that’s good. The house is very close to the school so I’m hoping we’d be unlucky for anyone to get in front of her on the waiting list.

I could really do with a nice school secretary - or anyone really - to help keep me sane as I’m clearly not very good at it!!!

At appeal, a school can’t hold it against you that you did what you felt you had to do to put your child into school after a move, eg them starting a private school or a school that is not of your choice. In fact, appellants who do otherwise - try to force a school’s hand by refusing offered places so they can claim the child is ‘not in school’ - tend to be less sympathetically viewed.

However, from the private school’s perspective , you are likely to face a significant fine for removing a child without the appropriate notice. A state school place gained on appeal has to be taken up very quickly - within a week or two - and therefore you are likely to forfeit not inly the remainder of that term’s fees but also the next term’s, depending on dates and notice period (and cost of uniform and equipment, likely to be significant). If you have a realistic chance of a Y3 place from waiting list or appeal, taking the small state school place may be by far the cheaper option - use money saved for any academic catch-up or enrichment, and a range of sports and other clubs / activities to meet other children.

Iirc, you can appeal once per school per academic year, so you have nothing to lose by appealing for a Y2 place in every acceptable school, losing, going to the alternative school and staying on the waiting list, then appealing again for Y3 places as well as with a sibling.

If you are already at the top of the waiting list, sibling priority will not get you any further up - but it will stop a sibling who lives closer than you leapfrogging you in the list.

Thank you @cantkeepawayforever that’s really useful advice regarding the private school. It would be hard for us to afford longer term so I think you’re right that we’d be better off spending money on other things in the meantime in the hope that she would eventually get a space at the preferred school. I will try to get confirmation about how often you can appeal - also very useful, thank you!