11+ pass rates

[monkeyblonde]

With secondary education exams having their pass mark levels reduced, has anyone had any information as to whether this may also be the case for 11+ pass marks? Surely the Covid impact will be taken into account?

We are in Bucks and I must admit that the whole thing is a bit of a dark art to me - our son is generally doing OK in practice but have no idea if he is operating at a sufficient level?!

A trial session with a tutor will answer your questions as will the class teacher. I don’t think pass marks will be lowered - even more children want to go to selective schools.

We have the assessments from his tuition, unfortunately class teachers refuse to comment as schools in our area are classed as test centres and cannot comment on potential outcomes.

It's more useful to think in terms of the highest achieving pupils getting a place - rather than pass marks per se. The mark you need in order to be eligible for consideration fluctuates each year. I'm a specialist 11+ tutor. If you want me to have a look at his work and give you some free feedback I'm happy to. DM me😊

Nope. You have to get the magic 121 or higher. I guess that if fewer children achieve it than expected then they would adjust the curve to ensure the correct proportion pass as they can’t have empty school places but it invariably won’t be necessary.

You’re in affluent Bucks with motivated, wealthy parents. I’m pretty sure the great majority of children sitting it won’t have had their chances scuppered at all due to covid as mummy and daddy will have ensured their tutoring continued throughout.

Also remember that it’s SUPPOSED to be a test of natural intelligence that doesn’t require tutoring. Arguably covid shouldn’t, therefore, make a blind bit of difference (although we all know that’s not true).

I do actually have faith in the Bucks system though. My DC wasn’t formally tutored and passed with flying colours.

@ClappyFats thank you. I will DM you later!

I am aware of the magic 121- it's hard to work out what that means though!

As a general rule, consistently getting over 85% in CGP GL practice papers according to my friend.

@BookwormButNoTime how many weeks or months prior to exam does consistently mean in this case?

Very roughly speaking, it's about 25-30% of those that take the test that achieve the qualifying mark in Bucks, isn't it? But of course that varies between areas and schools.

There seems to be quite a lot of data available at:

www.thebucksgrammarschools.org/test-data

You might be able to work out how many children from your DS's school tend to achieve the score each year, and you might have some idea as to where he sits within the class, so this might give you some indication?

We're not in Bucks, and our area isn't a fully grammar area so the system is not quite the same, but the children that got grammar places were the children that were generally considered the brightest in the class.

I don’t know as we only ever did one. I would guess in the month before the exam.

The old head at our prep school said the best indicators of success are 1) natural ability of the child 2) a child who performs well in exam conditions I.e. who doesn’t get stressed out and 3) those with good exam technique. He was right. My DC sat it the year that there was an error on the paper and an unanswerable question. They took it in their stride, missed it out and carried on. They then had to deal with an interruption to the exam whilst the error was highlighted. It threw a lot of children and many didn’t finish the paper. Some parents tried to use it as a justification for a selection review but it was pointed out that plenty of children still managed to pass.

It’s not just about being able to answer questions.

You don't get a raw score for the 11+

The schools can weight different bits however they want. So it's your child's weighted score compared to everyone else who sat the exam.

My children got different scores for different schools from the same consortium exam.

My youngest never once got 85% on a complete mock, he could never finish them, English and VR he will have been lucky to get 60%, but maths and NVR I'd be surprised if he'd got one wrong. He got a strong score and his top choice offer.

Sorry, I managed to miss you gave your location, our area don't give a ray score.

Ours just put them in order and take the top x amount. They don't give out any score but do tell you the child is placed 200 out of 500 for example.
There is no pass or fail rate you are competing against that year's cohort.
It may be a high-performing group or it may be a lower-performing group. No way to predict.

Bucks is slightly different as it’s a full grammar county. There are heaps of places available and approximately 30% pass. There’s no ranking and no preference given to those who get higher scores, in receipt of pupil premium etc to get in other areas. You just need to get the 121.

I know literally almost a hundred kids who have sat it and those who were successful were all getting 80%+ in practice tests. Some much higher. A few a bit lower. Those getting 85% plus were all successful. It’s a great guide as to how realistic your chances.

That's interesting, I don't know Bucks at all. So is 121 a raw score or a standardised score? If it's a raw score, how do they have any control over how many children pass (and therefore how many grammar places they'll need)? Or is there just a risk that lots of people who pass the test might not get a grammar place, if more than usual pass that year?

In Kent, which is also full grammar, there's still a fixed pass mark, but it's a standardised score. So, to get the required 108 on maths, might some years require a 50% raw score, and other years a 75% raw score, depending on how hard the paper. So they can ensure that it's always about 25% who pass.

It's a standardised score. I suppose my original question was more that the raw scores could potentially be lower, based on knowledge/study gaps from Covid - but as it's always impossible (for obvious reasons) to know what the standardised score represents in raw terms it's hard to know.

Obviously the standardisation takes into account the amount of selective school places available.

My son is around 80-90% on all areas (stronger on maths and VR) but is struggling on NVR (generally around 60-70%) and I find it a nightmare to help him with!

They do not lower the pass score in Bucks to fill up the places. There have been years when some schools have not been full. There is often room for appeal cases too. If there’s more in Bucks catchment with 121 plus, they take them over anyone not in catchment even if they have a higher score.

It is absolutely not 30% everywhere in Bucks. Aylesbury Vale area lags behind somewhat. No. Teachers in state schools give no judgement on 11 plus suitability either. The schools concentrate on what they teach. Some schools have lots of bright DC and others don’t. Some vary hugely from year to year. Exam technique matters and that’s why non tutored DC can slip up.

My DD wasn’t tutored and we withdrew DD2. Sadly it’s a race for MC DC and tutoring starts so early. Many secondary schools here are good and DC do well in them. Lots are well run and DC make good progress. So even if DC don’t pass, it’s not a disaster.

Therefore the magic 121 is always the same raw score? If so (back to my original question ) what does this equate to in %?

The scores are standardised by taking age into account. So an August birthday gives you an extra couple of marks. Each year over 9,000 children sit the test, about 5,000 of whom don’t actually live in Bucks or anywhere nearby (Surrey, London, Worcestershire etc). Some parents don’t understand that you can’t just up and move if your child passes and be guaranteed a place - some of the schools require you to be resident at least a year beforehand. Some use it as a free practice test as Bucks always used to be the first GL sitting in the country.

If you live in Bucks and fail by one or two marks then you should absolutely go for a selection review. They have far more passes than children actually eligible for places through normal admissions criteria (I.e. living in Bucks and close enough to the schools).

The NVR only accounts for 25% of the exam mark so can be outweighed by very strong marks in the maths and VR sections. It sounds like your son has a very good chance. Concentrate on exam technique - miss out a question if it’s too hard, use process of elimination to work out the wrong answers and then make a guess from the remaining etc. NVR can be really hard. If his maths is strong it will counter balance.

If you are 5 marks short and your school supports review you must go for it if you live in Bucks. Every year DC come ip a bit short and sometimes DC with 120 have gone to grammars without review but it’s not often snd with so many more houses built, not so likely now.

Summer borns get more marks. I never could work out how raw score moved to standardized score. Even in practice paper DD brought home. I made her raw score 66. She scored 140 in the exams. You just have to have a bright all rounder who reads, is logical and understands the questions which they then work out quickly enough so they don’t run out of time. It’s been used by people who want high flying independent schools to gauge which ones!

Thanks for all the replies on this, it's been really reassuring. I have really tied myself up in knots!

(Shame he was born in October though 😬😬)

Birth months are standardised as TizerorFizz said, so it doesn’t make any difference!