Unpopular primary head

[Breatout]

Has anyone had children at a school with an unpopular head? My DC are at a school which has changed dramatically under the current head. They seem to not like the parents and lots of parents have pulled their children out over last few years citing not liking the head and we have seen it go from 7 classes to 6 classes to 5 classes in the space of 4 years and teachers have had to start teaching mixed age classes (this seems to work well with teachers who are used to it but in this instance has led to a repeat in topics and teachers being stressed by new set up.) popular teachers and TA’s have had to be made redundant and parents knew how upset the teachers they were which led to more unsettling feelings amongst parents. Most parents seem to feel that the head is unfriendly and invisible, and the governors know this feeling as parents have let them know but don’t seem willing to act - I suspect they can’t on the basis of unpopularity and falling numbers but don’t know much about a governors role.
prospective local parents say they are not picking the school after unfriendly tours and lack of enthusiasm from head and are choosing to travel a bit further.
the governors have said to parents that the head is good at paperwork and managing staff but is that enough in a school at heart of local community? The old head used to engage with the community and was so popular and it was oversubscribed.
anyone else had similar at a school their DC went to. I feel my DC are now missing out now and we should move them but they are happy.

We had similar, it involved the school becoming a trust and multiple head changes. The issues you mentioned classes merged, changes and loss of teacher's. My DC were year 4&5 at the time. Lots of kids left and some of the lovely teachers too. I put my DC name down for alternative schools, no places as others had higher priority. However my DC were happy and had friends.

Had my DC been at the beginning of their time I would have moved them. The school at the end was dreadful. I was so glad when they finished and went to a decent secondary. The head was awful, there were so many things wrong I don't know how they got away with it.

Anyway I would say go with your gut but do consider your DC. What year are they? Do they have friends? My DC lost some friends which was tough but they were ok. Are your DC learning ok? Are the remaining teachers good?

@Rupertpenrysmistress thank you for your reply, so reassuring to I hear from people who went through it and survived! My youngest DC is year 3 and so we are nearly there. The secondary is very good and popular head so I feel like the future is bright if I can just get through this bit. TBH I feel like it is more affecting me than them. I get sad at what they are missing (lack of clubs, less playmates, not being stretched in mixed age class, repeat of topics etc) and I suppose I remember so clearly what a bustling and buzzing and creative place it used to be. The school has great outdoors space and the old head used every inch, whereas the new head seems allergic to outdoor leaning which in a rural area just seems such a shame. I feel like some schools would do anything for that lovely space.
somehow the head manages to turn things so that parents feel blamed for the shortcomings. The PTA works so hard and last year the school asked for money for training teachers as budgets so low due to drastic drop in pupil numbers. The PTA gave it after guilt trip but surely PTA remit is not finding teacher training!
My gut is that DC are happy so stick - but so hard to do so when others are fleeing sinking ship and finding happiness in new environments.
I had no idea a state school’s success was so dependent to the head.

Funding not finding!!

Sounds exactly like our experience, no trips,limits to outside access, not replacing PE equipment. Children were definitely limited. However I agree it was more my issue than the DC. As our school became an academy there was suddenly no budget for anything. I too felt guilty but through it all the DC were settled and happy.

I can't believe the PTA has to pay for teachers though, I thought I had heard everything. I felt so sorry for the poor teachers they didn't love it. Pupil numbers dropped but, eventually due to lack of places in the face of a growing population they improved their numbers.

I did ask my DC if they wanted to leave, my dd lost both of her best friends but, she made more. I just had to grin and bare it.

@Rupertpenrysmistress funnily enough the teachers that have kept their jobs seem ok with the head - but someone said to me maybe that is because the head places such low expectations on them in terms of what they have to do beyond the very core curriculum (maths and English is all they seem to really focus on.) they used to come home with endless bits of art and you used to have to take a carrier bag up at the end of half term to put creative things in. My DC has probably bought home one piece of art a term with new head.
Grin and bear it is exactly it. I said to someone recently that it feels like I am in a toxic relationship but I have to stay for the children. If it was me I would walk away tomorrow and never look back.
good to know things are bright the other side, thank you!

There are lots of issues here. You don’t say why the old head left. Was it a planned retirement or something else? You say that the old head was community minded and that school was a happy place but don’t mention results. If results were either flattening out or below national then your new head will have a remit. That remit will be to drive up results. This will mean changes and in my experience community and happiness won’t be top of the list. This is wrongheaded and not ultimately in the children’s best interests but it is the way that education has gone. School improvement at all costs. Just look on here at offer time to see why. Everyone wants their kid in an ‘outstanding’ school. I’ve worked under such regimes (and left).
Your PTA cannot pay for teachers. It would be illegal. Paying for teacher training? Shady.
Ultimately, governors should not be involved in operational matters. That is not to say that you cannot complain to them though, but you would have to have exhausted the school complaints procedure first. The PTA money being misused might be a place to start.

Thanks @JimmyGrimble . You are spot on. The old head was ‘encouraged’ to retire by the old governors who wanted an outstanding school. Despite stripping out all the clubs and creativity, focusing entirely on maths and English and stopping parents from volunteering or running clubs, at the last ofstead (this year) the school got awarded good-ish (not the type of good that can go up to o apparently). When we joined it was good with outstanding features.

That is interesting about PTA money - the chairs accepted the request but with very heavy hearts, they felt emotionally blackmailed in to it.

We now get letters from the governors if we complain about anything saying that we shouldn’t be writing to them. You can’t email the head, you have to email the office and get it passed on which seems unsavoury if it is confidential information IMO.

As a governor myself I'm astounded at quite a few aspects here! How on earth do parents know some of these things? How did the governors tell parents that the head is good at paperwork and managing staff? In a newsletter or is this gossip?

How do parents know that the governors encouraged the old head to retire? Is this gossip as well?

Either a lot of gossip or governors are breaching confidentiality ( for which they can be suspended) or both.

Governors can only act if there is underperformance. Plenty of schools have falling rolls and no money, nothing to do with what head is like. Sadly redundancies, mixed classes etc are getting common and are a direct result of falling rolls and no money but this can all be a vicious circle.

I wonder if old head let things go and now new head is having to sort out the mess.

On complaints, governors they can only act if all other stages of the complaints policy have been done. The policy should be on the website.

It is normal for the head not to give out their email address otherwise they'd be inundated with trivia. School office staff deal with confidential information all the time. I wouldn't let that bit worry you.

There is no category of ofsted that stops you getting outstanding next time. I wonder if you mean the sort that says 'next judgement might not be as good', even so this doesn't prevent getting outstanding even if unlikely.

From a parent viewpoint, I absolutely get what you're saying and it is awful to see a school change like this, but chances of changing anything are remote I'd imagine. Only you can decide whether to move the children but do be aware grass isn't always greener in view of above factors.

Hope things turn out well for your children.

@grasscuttings Absolutely spot on!

@grasscuttings thanks so much for your thoughtful post. I think parents know because the chair is a parent and most of the governors are parents and they must tell parents this information when talking. So yes I suspect many breaches of confidence happening.
I wrote a letter of concern about something and the chair’s husband gave me and my husband eyeballs for a week in the playground so I can see that there is definitely a breach from both head and chair. Head and chair are very close and there is no sign of any ‘gentle challenge’ from the chair in gov’s minutes from what I can see - sometimes it seems like the chair is an unpaid member of staff, she was ‘working’ at sports day doing timings and things like that. Also the clerk to the gov’s does occasional stand in teaching as he is an ex head - recently he was going to cover for head part time when she asked to do a cover to ‘inspire’ another school for 6 weeks (she went for 2 days and never went again so presumably something happened there too! We only got a letter telling us why she was going so no idea what happened. He is very discreet but you could tell he was put out as he had cleared his time to stand in for her for those weeks.)

The head is also really inappropriate at ‘calling out’ parents - a friend had put something on her private Instagram page about her worries for her daughter as she is dyslexic (didn’t name school, blame school, or show any photos she never does!) and the head phoned her and said a member of staff had seen it on their Instagram in staff room and were upset. The poor parent was in bits as she hadn’t done anything wrong, she didn’t follow the teacher for some reason the teacher followed her (bit weird) and the head said ‘I used to think you were nice’ on the phone to her. She didn’t want to do a formal complaint as she felt the head would take it out on her.

so all in all I think there are some real leadership issues from head and gov’s - a friend who works in HR in a well known company had two children there and pulled them out complaining of leadership (but didn’t formally complain as could see no point just did what was best for her children and quickly).

@grasscuttings also it is known why there is a fall in roll as one of the governors asked for an exit interview for parents at nearby preschool asking why they weren’t choosing the school - it was pretty clear from their answers. Anecdotally - this is a small community- plenty of mid way through school exiting parents site the head’s unfriendly attitude, negative meetings they have had with her and her general invisibility at the school as reason they are looking elsewhere for their children. Other local schools are not suffering the same fall in numbers despite falling birth rate. One breach of confidentiality to parents from a worried gov (not chair) was that the head was gently asked about drastic fall in numbers in last meeting and stormed out of meeting. This meeting has no minutes yet - the last minutes published are from December last year and when the clerk was asked by a parent he didn’t provide them.

Goodness me this is really awful and shocking! Is it a maintained school (not academy) if so, high time the local authority stepped in at the very least to do something about the governors. But LAs often have no money or staff either. And new governors are not easy to come by. Always so many buts nowadays.

If an academy depending on the structure you could approach the trust board or whatever layer is next upwards.

Whilst academies have many dubious aspects, it tends to be quicker to sort stuff out as processes are less arduous and lengthy (obvs this can be a bad thing too).

This is exactly why governor training warns against boards being too parent dominated.

Don't waste your time on getting those minutes, it's very easy for the board to make them confidential and therefore unreleaseable. A freedom of info request can override that though if you feel so inclined. Even then don't get your hopes up, they probably won't be detailed and just say 'governors discussed xxx'.

How difficult for you all. I think I would be moving my children.

Thank you @grasscuttings it means so much that people are listening on here. It is an LEA school. I am quite scared of the chair and I know she talks about parents so I don’t want to make a formal complaint myself. So either grin or bear or move DC - such a touch decision when they are fundamentally happy.

If your LA has a governor support service they might be prepared to talk to you on the phone anonymously, I've done that before. Anything anonymous in writing, unlikely. They might suggest options I haven't thought of! I bet they have an inkling already but who knows.

Been thinking about this thread all day. It upsets me a lot governors behave like this and give us all a bad name! And doesn't help recruitment either.

However. You said the school got a good ofsted recently. It's not easy to pull the wool over ofsted eyes and they don't give good willy nilly. They might well have picked up on this stuff but obvs decided that quality of education is still good. That's something anyway. People love to slag off ofsted, IME they usually get it about right and are pretty shrewd about underlying stuff.

Overall this is what matters isn't it? Are your children getting a good education.

I think I would be trying to distance myself from all the crap and just keep asking myself that. When the balance starts tipping, time to move them perhaps.

@grasscuttings that is great advice thank you so much. Since her arrival the head has been so against the parents and community. There was a team of retired helpers who looked after the school’s environment area and she ‘sacked’ them when they asked why it wasn’t being used any more and then it went to ruin after 11k of fundraising went in to it before her arrival.She wouldn’t let parents maintain it as said they wouldn’t do a good enough job.

when parents have complained about elements of the offering, however politely, she institutes anti harassment type procedures and she only replies to positive emails not ones asking questions she doesn’t like. The WI used to volunteer and do reading in the school and she stopped that and the ladies were so hurt.
Its like she wants to barricade the school down with just her in a tower holding reins very tightly. It used to be such a happy and buzzing place.
but yes you are right re the good ofstead - it is teaching them English and Maths well.

Your school sounds an awful lot like the school I am currently at (10 days to go!!!). Head and governors do whatever suits them, and redirect any blame. I can imagine how you are feeling as a parent. From the staff's point of view, it's just as horrendous.

In my school, any complaint gets thrown back on either the person complaining or passed on to someone else. Complaints that are perfectly reasonable.

Our parents don't feel listened to either and are very upset over the high staff turnover. After they caught wind I was leaving after many years, I had a few concerned parents ask if they should consider moving their children.

We've had multiple parents write to the chair of governors and council. All the unions have been involved. Supply agencies flat out refuse to work with the school. Yet the root of the problem isn't being addressed as the two people responsible will do anything they can to deflect and protect themselves to the detriment of staff, parents, and children. It's a real shame as it's a fantastic community.

@inthewest I am so sorry it sounds horrible. You could be describing our school to a T. Is there a drop in pupils at yours too because of it? I wish you all the best at your new school, hopefully it will be a happier experience for you.

I've PM'd you OP.

The juniors the kids went to was like this - Head and Chair of Governors were so tight there was no scrutiny at all, and there was just a shitty attitude of parents being imbeciles who were inconveniences throughout. In the end, after trying for nearly a year to get support for DD2's diagnosed SEN, and DD1 being assaulted during the school day and the school's response to me just wanting to know what had happened (DD1 can tend to lie so I do just ask for the other side of events) being for the head to yell down the phone to me for 30 minutes... we walked away and moved schools to one that could not be more different.

There has since been a fairly mass exodus (within the limits of the other schools in the area capacity) with even more on the waiting lists to get the hell out of there.

It seems to be more common than I thought - sort of reassuring to know that ours isn’t a unique situation although I don’t wish it on any of our DC to be at a school with falling roll call and unhappy parents.

Trouble is there just aren’t any head teachers applying for jobs any more. COVID finished them off. It’s such a hard job anyway. I wouldn’t do it even if you paid me a million pounds.

@BlackbirdsSinging I know 😔. But even with that understanding it feels horrible when you end up with one who isn’t really interested in the children or in the community.

In the last school I worked at, the Head had recently changed (before I started) much to the chagrin of many parents - who absolutely loved the old Head.
Sadly, they were not aware that he had been having an affair with the school secretary, between the both of them they were embezzling school funds, and although kids seemed to be happy, their academic progress was hampered by the fact that he didn’t hold teachers to account because he just wanted to be popular!

@Soontobe60
Blimey that is the plot for a novel!
Sadly our headteacher is unpopular, not held to account by the governing board, and doesn’t seem to be ambitious for the teaching beyond the very basics. The teachers are great though, with what they are allowed to teach.

@Breatout
Sorry for late response. I’ve just read through the whole saga. There are so many issues!

Firstly, the Head is appointed by the governors. Dismissing a head is virtually impossible unless they break the law of are demonstrably incompetent. Leaving by mutual agreement is possible. However, tame governors won’t deal with it and they will lose face. You are stuck with the head. Probably.

Falling rolls at your school denotes other schools have spaces. It means not enough DC are being born in your area so schools had to decrease in size. Your head and governors have decided it’s your school that will take the brunt of this by their inaction. Do they market the school? Just sitting back is not good enough.

I too suspect the governors thought results and progress were of concern, hence a focus on Sats learning with the new head. If minutes are published by the governors, they cannot be changed. Ask for them. The constitution of the GB will not be for too many parents. My old school with 240 on roll was 2. I came off that GB recently that had too many governors who were teachers! It’s meant to be balanced. They must have a complaints procedure on the web site by law. Parents must follow it. Random letters are not complaints. You can ask the LA for the GB constitution too.

Art and craft is lazy homework for the teachers and doesn’t support learning. Many schools have cut if out. Parents who work struggled to support their DC and other parents did the craft homework themselves. There should be far better targeted homework than that. What does the homework policy say?

You can ask to see the School Improvement Plan. What are they targeting post Ofsted and how will they do it? Plus they are allocated training money. PTA shouldn’t agree to this from their funds. They need more guts! It’s down to the governors to manage the finances. Not parents.

This head is distancing themselves from the old ways. New broom etc. What does ofsted say leadership should do to improve? This should be addressed in the improvement plan. If the remaining teachers can work with the head it will be better but they clearly have curriculum issues. You cannot repeat the curriculum. I would ask for a curriculum overview from the class teacher.