Head Boy & Girl - Thoughts

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Original poster

Undecided1985 · 28/04/2022 16:47

I meant never heard of head girls and boys at primary wasnt a thing in my day

and 2 form entry meaning 65-70 kids in each year

OP posts:

Original poster

Undecided1985 · 28/04/2022 16:48

sorry its 12 children across the year that get chosen as its eg 4 per term HB HG & DHB DHG sorry!

OP posts:

pkim123 · 28/04/2022 16:58

Undecided1985 · 28/04/2022 16:44

My DCs attend a state primary with 2 forms so approx 65 pupils

eldest DC is now yr 6 and the school have votes for head and deputy head boy and girl across each of the 3 school terms so that 9 of the yr6! children get the chance to be head boy or girl

When this first was mentioned to me I thought it was odd as its a case of children simply voting for their preferred child rather than children being interviewed or asked to provide evidence or ideas of why they would be the best for the role. I did tell DC I didnt really agree with it as a concept as it was obviously open to people voting for family friends or even people they were actually scared of.

Not great in general but in DC yr there is a large group of family friends in one class so it was obvious they would all agree to vote for each other in turns which they did and secured roles. In the other class there is a large number of bully type children who did the same. So each of the roles was filled this way.

I appreciate it may sound like sour grapes because my DC didnt get the votes. But I just find the concept odd and unhelpful.

DC has done ok at other things based on ability and I agree with voting in school counsel ot various committees where the children are asked to demonstrate what they would do.

I had never heard of it at primary (probably just me being out of touch as we never had them at promary)

what do others think?

The kids vote for just one head girl at our school. I think the system is fine. Countries vote for their leaders, why shouldn't students vote for heads?

dumdumduuuummmmm · 28/04/2022 17:04

@pkim123 I think the OPs point is that they vote in 4 people (HB HG DepHB DepHG) each term. So that's 12 people over the year. And as the parents do the whole strategy thing, it's just not a fair or healthy competition. It's contained in cliques so it's just bollocks. Nothing like a democratic vote for a country leader should be. Although that shit happens too.

pkim123 · 28/04/2022 17:06

dumdumduuuummmmm · 28/04/2022 17:04

@pkim123 I think the OPs point is that they vote in 4 people (HB HG DepHB DepHG) each term. So that's 12 people over the year. And as the parents do the whole strategy thing, it's just not a fair or healthy competition. It's contained in cliques so it's just bollocks. Nothing like a democratic vote for a country leader should be. Although that shit happens too.

So the parents figure out who they tell all the kids to vote for each term?

Is that much different than me telling my DD to tell everyone in the school that she would vote for them if they also voted for her?

Doona · 28/04/2022 17:11

It's not as if the head children have any real power though. We had that when I was a child, and I found a useful demonstration of the strengths and weaknesses of democracy.

pkim123 · 28/04/2022 17:13

Doona · 28/04/2022 17:11

It's not as if the head children have any real power though. We had that when I was a child, and I found a useful demonstration of the strengths and weaknesses of democracy.

Maybe they want to put it on a school application and think that it will sound impressive? "Head Boy, elected by peers"

Original poster

Undecided1985 · 28/04/2022 17:55

Thanks for responses so far

I think my issue is that it is just a vote eg not a vote based on the children having provided any additional evidence or set of ideas or intentions or met any criteria and its simply a popularity contest

In the Uk we do have a voting democracy but usually based in part at least on a manifesto or policy etc

Voting has taken place before for school counsel and committees neither of which my DC was elected for which was fine as others had abilities that made them more suitable for these roles

I just wonder why schools do this at primary level and why it is a straight vote rather than more of the kids providing info or ideas of what they bring to the role etx.

obviously just open to cliques dominating which happened to the point I kind of felt it was a negative

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Original poster

Undecided1985 · 28/04/2022 17:59

Also yes in DC year it is a case of a group of family friends who have kids in the year deciding who they will get their kids to vote for thats why their kids won eg group of 8 kids all with parents who are big lifelong friends outside of school go on hols together etc all agreed to vote for each other across the different terms.

Appreciate that is quite unique

But really not keen on the whole idea and just wondered was it me - seems something better kept to secondary school.

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pkim123 · 28/04/2022 18:04

Undecided1985 · 28/04/2022 17:59

Also yes in DC year it is a case of a group of family friends who have kids in the year deciding who they will get their kids to vote for thats why their kids won eg group of 8 kids all with parents who are big lifelong friends outside of school go on hols together etc all agreed to vote for each other across the different terms.

Appreciate that is quite unique

But really not keen on the whole idea and just wondered was it me - seems something better kept to secondary school.

I hope you don't mind my saying this, but it seems like this has really gotten under your skin. I agree maybe it was not a fair and rational election, but is it really that important to you? Was your DC upset by the results? Just trying to understand.

Doona · 28/04/2022 18:06

The problem is the cliques, not the vote. Cliques are the worst.

Original poster

Undecided1985 · 28/04/2022 18:13

My DC is not dreadfully upset and I am just a bit bemused by it

I feel uncomfortable mentioning it to other mums. and dads and just wondered how others felt

All DC have had their share of opportunities at school but it just seems an odd thing to encourage at primary level - but maybe thats just me

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pkim123 · 28/04/2022 19:20

Undecided1985 · 28/04/2022 18:13

My DC is not dreadfully upset and I am just a bit bemused by it

I feel uncomfortable mentioning it to other mums. and dads and just wondered how others felt

All DC have had their share of opportunities at school but it just seems an odd thing to encourage at primary level - but maybe thats just me

I think you did the right thing by testing the waters here, that's smart thinking. I'm sure other parents likely share your view as well. Anyway, so long as DC is okay, that's all that matters. Have a lovely long weekend.

ColdHappyBap · 28/04/2022 19:42

I understand why you feel a bit off about it. My DC’s school have a school council and every year the most popular two kids in her class got voted on and then did absolutely nothing for the year.

This year one of the kids suggested that they should do anonymous submissions. So each child who wanted to stand had to write their piece saying why you should vote for them, but no names put on them and then people voted for their favourite. With no names attached the popular kids lost their advantage. Instead two not unpopular but not wildly popular kids got voted on and have done a really good job. I wish they’d done that from the beginning.

MartinMartinMarti · 28/04/2022 19:51

I think that head boy and girl at primary is a bit silly.

But when I've seen voting done in secondary schools it's normally 'advisory', with teachers having the final say. Obviously the election results aren't released which limits upset.

Still not a very sensible system in my view, but it limits some of the problems you mention.

IglesiasPiggl · 28/04/2022 19:57

I think they should have a different method of election each term, eg first term elected by students, second term elected by staff, 3rd term draw from a hat.

Twizbe · 28/04/2022 20:03

We had a head boy and girl at my primary school.

I was head girl because I was the only girl.... the head boy was the only boy in our year too (it was a small school)

It's not the best way to select them and might be worth a chat to the teachers around pre selection of candidates etc.

AntarcticTern · 28/04/2022 20:03

I agree with you OP that it seems a bit pointless. But I'm not sure there's any really good system at this age (it's different in secondary school when they are a bit more discerning). Eg if the teachers choose, then they are open to accusations of favouritism, or get criticised for choosing the same child that had such-and-such an opportunity etc etc.

At my DC's school the kids vote, but it's the whole school who vote, not just year 6. So basically the winners are usually children with younger siblings who tell the rest of their class to vote for their brother/sister. Which is an equally silly system!

LollyLol · 28/04/2022 20:07

My DD's primary do something similar voting Representatives for a school council. They DO have til present their ideas to the whole school assembly. And it's still a popularity vote.

Before covid the winner for Head of Council promised to organise a visit to a theme park, a Royal visit and a swimming pool in the school grounds. So the ideas arent really moderated and the whole thing is nonsense.

I used it as an opportunity to explain to DD why democracy is flawed and Donald Trump succeeded in becoming President of the USA.

EinsteinaGogo · 28/04/2022 20:08

I think head boy / girl at primary is ridiculous so that's my caveat, but OP, I agree with you.

Head girl / boy is supposed to be an earned position bestowed as a result of aptitude, diligence, achievement etc.

Making it a popularity contest devalues it and makes it pointless.

Class president would be a better option if they are looking for a (pseudo) demographic option.

Apolloeyes · 28/04/2022 20:11

@ColdHappyBap that’s brilliant.

Sleepdeprived42long · 28/04/2022 20:13

You’re right OP-it’s basically just a popularity contest.

dumdumduuuummmmm · 28/04/2022 20:17

Twizbe · 28/04/2022 20:03

We had a head boy and girl at my primary school.

I was head girl because I was the only girl.... the head boy was the only boy in our year too (it was a small school)

It's not the best way to select them and might be worth a chat to the teachers around pre selection of candidates etc.

There were only the 2 of you in the year?

MargaretThursday · 28/04/2022 20:37

Any vote like that becomes a popularity vote and nothing to do with whether they'll be any good at it.
I can tell you exactly who it would have been in my primary form-her dm would have probably had a party for all the girls the day before and explained to us all that we must vote for her dd as she would be the best, and we'd have all like robots nodded and done as she said as the rest of the mums fumed.

Twizbe · 28/04/2022 21:44

@dumdumduuuummmmm yep. Only 100 kids in the whole school.