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Primary education

Join our Primary Education forum to discuss starting school and helping your child get the most out of it.

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Original poster

Selective pre-preps...

15 replies

SurreyCoconuts · 22/04/2022 23:20

Can you really be certain of a school having a proper selection process at the age of 4/reception?
Does anyone know any kids that failed the selection at this age?

We are considering sending our son to a pre-prep and wondering if it is bonkers and a waste of time but the school is linked to a grammar and has a selection process even at reception entry. Or do people who send their kids to pre-preps just do so to secure their place early and can rest assured all is guaranteed?

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TizerorFizz · 23/04/2022 00:25

The grammar is presumably private. No state grammars are linked to EY/pre-prep provision. If you want a through school, there will be selection at some point! You could go stare and avoid it.

BendingSpoons · 23/04/2022 07:04

Selection at 3 and 4 is the least 'reliable'. Whilst they control for age difference, I'm not sure it always works fully. Children's progress is particularly variable at that age and it's quite normal for a 3yo to not be sitting still for long, not be very interested in mark making etc. The numbers that 'fail' will depend on how competitive the school is. Some highly popular schools will have large numbers of applicants and will have to make decisions, so children will miss out on places for relatively small reasons. Other schools will be able to give places to most that apply.

I think you are right though that it can be an easier entry point into a selective school. Others don't want to pay until 7 or 11. You need to check what standards they have to keep meeting later on. Usually they will be reassessed at 11+ (and warned beforehand if they are likely to struggle) so it's not a guarantee. Saying that, you would expect the school to work harder to keep their own pupils, so it is probably less competitive than trying to enter at 11.

AnotherNewt · 23/04/2022 08:01

Remember that they're also screening out 'that parent'

Legoninjago1 · 23/04/2022 09:36

AnotherNewt · 23/04/2022 08:01

Remember that they're also screening out 'that parent'

I was about to say this! For sure that's a huge part of it. They are also looking for children who can play well with others, share, follow instructions etc. I've read threads on here about people tutoring for this age and that is just mad and probably a complete waste of money.

tryandcountsheep · 23/04/2022 15:15

I assume your DC will be starting somewhere at reception, so why not the school you'd hope for them at 7+ or 11+ if its an all through school.

Its cruel, but at 4+ most private schools simply want a child that is toilet trained, can dress herself and use cutlery , that takes instruction easily - almost the opposite at 11+ where they're looking for the special spark, they want a child that's easily taught and conformist , and they want parents to be the same!

BlusteryLake · 23/04/2022 15:20

At that age, it's really just a mechanism for whittling down the numbers in oversubscribed schools. They are looking for children who are easy to teach and "naice" parents.

Original poster

SurreyCoconuts · 23/04/2022 19:31

Thanks all. I just feel like we would be in a firm minority sending them to pre-prep amongst our peers. In fact I dont know anyone who has.

I feel we will as I would feel more upset if DC didn't get accepted at 7+. Just would have been nice to enjoy my full salary again as we have a 17m age gap and have been paying got 2 of them at nursery for the past 2 years...gulp.

OP posts:

Legoninjago1 · 24/04/2022 17:13

17 months apart here too OP. Paid for pre prep and it's definitely not nothing! Plenty do state first.

ConfusedaboutSchool · 24/04/2022 19:55

I'm not sure what your question is exactly. Some entry processes at 4+ are very competitive and most applicants won't be offered while some are just a formality and almost every one will. It really depends on the school. I do know children who didn't get into a competitive school at 4 but then passed the 7+ though so I wouldn't ready much into the outcome either way.

Most people who use private school don't start at 4. There are more at seven and even more at 11. The number peak at 16 as plenty only use the private system for A-levels. It's really down to your budget and alternative state options to decide what to do.

ChnandlerBong · 25/04/2022 12:41

Lots of pre preps have entrance processes as they have more candidates than places.

Some of these processes claim to be academic screening and there are children who are unsuccessful.

IME this is meaningless. I know kids who were 'successful' who then didn't cover themselves with glory at the 11+/GCSE/A level stages.

I also know kids who were 'unsuccessful' who went on to get 11+ scholarships/first class degrees.

Both mine went to independent schools from age 3. They were happy and have done well. Would I make the same choice again knowing that the local primaries are very solid? No. I don't think it made any difference to any of the academic outcomes so far.

barofsoap · 25/04/2022 12:46

Remember a friend's daughter not getting "selected" at 4 - story was that they took the "most assertive"
Glad I never applied to that school (was the pre prep, then prep and then independent senior school that called itself a grammar school)

theremustonlybeone · 25/04/2022 12:58

My DS had an assessment at 3+, it involved observation and play. He seemed to impress them as he drew a person with a lot of details on it. Others didnt get offered a place whilst he did. We have a couple of highly competitive 4+ schools and the DC are expected to be ahead by a year or so. They are looking for kids who are bright, engaged and up for learning. My DD didnt get offered at 4+ she hadnt been tutored or anything and wanted to play with the dolls. Other kids were sat chatting away to teachers at the desk, doing puzzles and other games. Folks get tutors when kids are tiny to prep them. Shocking really.

theremustonlybeone · 25/04/2022 13:03

i should add that 7+ is worse, in our local schools kids are expected to be 11/2 to 2 yrs ahead to get into the highly sought after schools. Parents get terribly upset as they underestimate the standard. Do your reading and ensure your aware of expectations. I dont agree that they are screening out 'that' parent. All parents are very driven and have high expectations. Thats why the schools do so well as the DC are pushed at home too

TizerorFizz · 25/04/2022 14:52

@ChnandlerBong
I think some private schools make a big difference and others don’t. It was never about academics for us. The wider opportunities at independent schools was a better fit for DDs. You never really know what DCs would do in state schools or not in state schools. You cannot turn the clock back. My DD1 was more motivated by boys she knew rather than her school friends. She’s now a very high earner but her skill set was honed at school prior to her choosing a career. The state school might not have been able to do this to the same degre.

ChnandlerBong · 25/04/2022 15:18

@TizerorFizz I'm not writing off the difference that an independent education could make. Both of mine are now thriving at independent secondary schools and I feel the value add at that stage is pretty clear.

The thread is about whether an independent pre prep is worth it and I can only state that in my experience I'm not sure it added much for our children.

FWIW I don't think that being a high earner is an effective measure of how good an education is. My DH earns more than many of his friends and he was state educated all the way through. His skills were honed at his local comprehensive.

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