Can you realistically appeal CofE school place based on faith?

[8DPWoah]

Thinking ahead to school places next year, our nearest catchment school is a new build CofE that is far from full. I went to a CofE school that wasn't very actively religious so never really noticed it as a kid. However this school seems heavily faith-based and I don't necessarily want that as we are an atheist family. I know it's more probably more clear cut for families of a particular faith but say we were allocated a place for DD at this CofE school (as it's not got a very good reputation and therefore has loads of places, and is very nearby to us) could we appeal on the strength that we would prefer a non-denom school? The LA have spent a lot of money building this new school to serve a new estate as well as our end of town but it would appear it's been less than popular so far. I know more about secondary admissions but primary is a whole different ballgame!

There isn’t such a thing as a non-denominational school as far as I’m aware. All schools have to perform acts of worship, so unfortunately I don’t think it would get you very far.

Basically, no ;-)

Any appeal you do is for a school, not against one, so an appeal based on "i don't want school x", for whatever reason, is very unlikely to win.

Are other local schools undersubscribed?

Does the catchment school have faith criteria in its admission policy?

First you have to apply to schools and be given a place, appeals don’t happen until after that. Then you appeal for schools you do want, not to avoid schools you don’t want.

Look at the other schools in your area and list those on your application. You will only be allocated a place at a school you don’t want if all the other schools you applied for are over subscribed.

The first thing to note is that you’d be appealing for the school you prefer, not against the one you’d been allocated (assuming you will be allocated the C of E school). You’d therefore need to pinpoint positive reasons why your child needed a place at the preferred school. Wanting to avoid a C of E school is unlikely to be enough to win an appeal, and certainly not if it’s an ICS appeal, where you have to pinpoint an error in the admissions system or demonstrate that the decision not to offer a place in the preferred school was unreasonable in the legal sense.

Thanks all, have tried to reply a couple of times but NuMumsnet hasn't played...try again!

I think the other schools locally are generally oversubscribed or very nearly so, this new place was meant to alleviate that as well as accommodating the new houses but as it's not been popular the bulk of the spare places appear to sit within it. I guess that could change with this year's stats and another 12 months down the line though.

I've no issue with the usual collective acts of worship etc as I've seen how many schools do so in a broad way but when I looked at the curriculum model for this place it concerned me how it almost put the religion front and centre at every opportunity rather than it being one feature among many. The school is also the place of worship that came as part of the new estate planning application, but I did think it would be a more separate entity if you see what I mean.

I need to do my research when the info starts coming out for next year but it's really useful to know that I need to be framing a good case for one of the other local options if we do get allocated this one that at the moment looks less appealing. Much appreciated!

if it doesn’t have faith category in admissions I would assume it is an inclusive school rather than faith school as such. For SIAMS (church type OFSTED) it will have to mention religion in many of its policies etc but doesn’t mean religion will be overbearing in actual normal day at school

Having checked the criteria it seems that is LAC, sibs in catchment, catchment, sibs out of catchment, THEN faith-based, then finally any out of catchment. I was hoping faith would trump catchment but I guess as the school is supposed to be alleviating pressure elsewhere that wouldn't be very helpful. Eek.

For a faith school, faith would be further up the criteria. It may not be too bad! Can you visit the school, know any parents who send children there already?

Oh that's good to know @toomuchlaundry ! As I say I've no worries with the usual collective worship and special times same as I hope she'll learn plenty about Diwali, Eid and so on too, all about balance for me! We've moved more over that side of town so I've been going to groups back where we were, but yes definitely a good shout to seek out a stay and play nearby too.

Do they have class blogs on the website, newsletters so you can see what they have been up to.

Most Church schools that are covering a catchment area with no other schools in have to bear in mind many families won’t necessarily be Church goers. They do have to comply with SIAMS guidance but not be too heavy handed with religion

All the faith schools I know also have faith as the second to last criteria (just above out of catchment).

The local ones to us don’t mention it all but they are rural so only schools in the area.

Some faith schools will ask for proof of faith, hence you get many families attending church and then probably never seen again once DC in school

My two nieces went to the local CofE school it was rural so the only available school - as atheists they sat out of the religious side of it. To be honest it wasn’t over religious and there admissions allocation wasn’t priority based on religion.

My guess is that the school will probably gradually get more applications each year. Where children have older siblings in another school, their parents aren't going to want to be delivering them to a different schools, and they'll also be further up the admissions criteria. At a guess, most of the first intake will have been "eldest children".

I don't know if it started with just reception, or older year groups as well, but of course people are going to need a good reason to change a child's school partway up, so if it does have older year groups that's probably mainly families new to the area, and spare places are inevitable.

Whether it will take the pressure off the places in the other schools by the time your child starts, I don't know.

Just want to wish you good luck OP! I think it’s so weird that some of the state funded schools are religious and some are not, and that parents may have zero choice unless they can afford to buy property right by their preferred school. There’s a CoE primary school near us that told a student they “dinosaurs aren’t something we believe in here” 😕 so if you go there, do keep an eye on lesson content, and complain as appropriate.

Hope you get in elsewhere.

I live in Scotland so it’s all different here, thankfully, but would you just not apply to that school?

Many schools, especially rural ones were set up by the church, otherwise children wouldn’t have been able to go to school. The state now run them but the land is still owned by the Church

Not applying for that school doesn't guarantee you won't get it. If you don't get a place at any of the schools you prefer, the LA allocates a place at another school - usually the nearest school with places available.

You appeal for a school you want.
Not why you don't want an offered school whether it is religious or not.

That's very strange - most people I know in the CoE do not take Genesis literally, and do believe in dinosaurs.

The reason some state schools are religious is historical, by the way. In the days before universal free education, the churches set up schools to provide for the poor. When they decided to provide free schooling, board schools were set up to plug the gaps. They were hardly going to tell the churches to stop at that point, as then they'd have needed rather more board schools. Over time, the balance of funding has changed, but usually the churches still own the land/buildings.

It does annoy me that the church still control so many UK schools.

We essentially had no choice where we live, all the local schools are C of E, and are very carefully set up with the bare minimum of parent (non religious) governors, with masses of church/diocese appointed strongly religious governors.

They manage to find time to have the children memorizing various prayers and my 5 year old comes home quoting religious views as cold hard facts, which I then have to carefully challenge and explain that not everyone shares those views.

It does annoy me that the church still control so many UK schools.

We essentially had no choice where we live, all the local schools are C of E, and are very carefully set up with the bare minimum of parent (non religious) governors, with masses of church/diocese appointed strongly religious governors.

They manage to find time to have the children memorizing various prayers and my 5 year old comes home quoting religious views as cold hard facts, which I then have to carefully challenge and explain that not everyone shares those views.

It does annoy me that the church still control so many UK schools.

We essentially had no choice where we live, all the local schools are C of E, and are very carefully set up with the bare minimum of parent (non religious) governors, with masses of church/diocese appointed strongly religious governors.

They manage to find time to have the children memorizing various prayers and my 5 year old comes home quoting religious views as cold hard facts, which I then have to carefully challenge and explain that not everyone shares those views.