Tips - What to do if you aren't happy with your school place

[PatriciaHolm]

I've posted this a few times before and it seems to be helpful, so I thought I would repost today, as it's National Offer Day for Primaries (England and Wales)

I thought it might be useful to do a quick summary post, primarily on what to do if you aren't happy, as I know it may come up a lot today....(FWIW, I sit on Appeals Panels, and also a Chair of Governors. There are several other very experienced panelists and admissions experts around too.) Hopefully this will be helpful.

What to do if you get a school you don't want?

1. Accept it. This is does not signal to the LA that you are happy, it just locks in a "last resort" option. It has NO impact on waiting lists - you get no preferential treatment on lists or at appeal if you turn the place down, nor are you negatively impacted if you have accepted a place.
If you turn it down, the LA no longer has an obligation to find you a place, so you will be dependent on waiting lists/appeals. If they don't come through, you could find yourself with no place in September. So ONLY turn it down if homeschool (or private) is definitely an option......

2.Get yourself onto Waiting lists for schools you do want. In some areas you are automatically put on lists for schools higher in your preferences that you don't get into, in some cases you need to ask, so check - your LA website, email, or login portal will probably tell you what to do. You can also add yourself to lists for schools you didn't apply for (some LAs limit the amount of lists you can be on though.)
You can also ask the LA if there are any other local schools with places that you might prefer.

3. Check there has been no mistake. If you are genuinely surprised and you think a mistake might have been made - wrong distance used, sibling link ignored etc - it's worth checking. Your decision letter/portal is likely to have the criteria you were assessed under for each school and, for example, the distance used in the case of distance criteria, so check all is well. If it doesn't, check with the LA. But be patient, lots of people will be calling/emailing today/tomorrow!.

4. Think about appeals. You can appeal for any school you applied for and didn't get into.
However, note that appeals for many/most reception years are ICS; Infant Class Size, which are exceptionally hard to win as the law caps classes at 30 in years R,1,2 unless there are exceptional circumstances (basically if the admissions authority made an error that cost you a place, or the decision not to admit is so unreasonable (in a specific legal sense) that no sensible person would have made it. Very few ICS appeals are granted).

Non ICS appeals are different and I won't go into depth here as each appeal is different, but essentially you need to show that the detriment to the school of taking another pupil is less than the detriment to your child of getting a place. If you decide to do this, post and ask for help! A number of us here are happy to do so.

If you are happy - great! Accept it, if you need to (some LAs will auto accept for you.) And be patient - most schools are a bit busy right now...

Any questions, do ask. Sometimes it's easier for someone not emotionally involved to figure out the answer or find a detail.

Daqqe- some useful words there, thanks!
I decided to choose homeschooling at the time as my child just wasn’t ready for the school environment, still is very anxious but is a lot more settled at home.

We are currently waiting on our CAMHS referral for him and hopefully once we have some form of ‘idea’ what is the ‘issue’ with him, I will definitely be considering a school that would meet his individual needs!

As for the youngest, I will definitely be looking at my options, and get ourselves onto some waiting lists. He would thrive at school 😀

Hi, really looking for advice.
My son didn’t get my preferred school (where he currently attends in nursery class) and is 5th on the waiting list (my first question- how likely is 5th place to get in?) I’m aware can go up or down.
Secondly, I have appealed. My son is suspected ASD by numerous medical professionals and is recognised as ASD at school currently (without official diagnosis- back log on referrals down to COVID) He has ‘Individual education plan’ in place etc and works with teachers/SENCO currently to support him. It is documented that he cannot cope with change and that this effects his personal, social and emotion development. Yet the council want me to change his school as they haven’t offered him a reception place where he is settled?! All this info was included in my application however I could not tick the SEN box as it said not too if awaiting diagnosis so I put all this info into addition information section.
I refuse to send my child elsewhere as this would cause him huge trauma with being autistic.
I feel that my child’s needs have been disregarded and they have not considered his SEN
My questions are- do I stand much chance at appeal? Is 5th on a waiting list pretty slim chances, what do I do, and where do I go from here?! I’m so angry and upset

It’s good that you’ve joined waiting lists.

At appeal, you’re going to have to argue that the decision to refuse a place was so unreasonable it shouldn’t be allowed to stand (as there’s no evidence of any mistake) but I think you’ll struggle to persuade the panel. I am sorry that your older child had such a bad experience at the offered school, but the LEA is likely to argue firstly that this is an appeal for the preferred school, not against the offered school and, secondly, that this is a different child with different needs so no reason to suppose that the offered school can’t meet them.

@Johnsonp Firstly, is the appeal ICS? Are there 30 (or a multiple of) in YrR,1 or 2 in a class? If so, the appeal will be much harder to win.

Does the school have a specific special educational/other needs criteria, and how is it worded? You refer to needing to have a diagnosis - does this mean there is a criteria but you didn't apply under it because of that?

Some schools don't have any sort of criteria like this, but many do.

Sorry for all the questions but the specific criteria and how it is worded are important.

Feel free to PM me the name of the school if you want and I will take a look.

Yes there are 2 reception classes, 30 children in each. 60 offers total have been sent so assuming that everybody accepts then they will be full.

When I applied originally there was a box to tick if your child had additional needs however, it stated underneath that you must not tick the box if your child was awaiting a diagnosis and only to tick the box if an official diagnosis had already been made- hence I didn’t tick.

I did however, at the end of the application under the ‘additional information’ section explain in detail that my son was suspected ASD and we were waiting for the referral for a diagnosis. I explained the impact on him regarding changes etc. and how his SEN effects him and why he needed to remain at the same school.

I have a letter from the GP to support my appeal stating that it would cause significant trauma to my son if he were to attend a different school etc. will this help me at the hearing?

I will pm you the school name.

Thanks so much for your help! I’m super stressed, I don’t know where to turn. I simply cannot send him to another school he could not cope with the change.

My previous comments were for WhatToDo.

My situation is very similar to Whattodo’s. I had to withdraw my 8 year old from his awful school and home school him until I found a new one. Found a new one and applied for him and his younger sister ( who was also at the awful school but able to stay until I found a new place) younger sister got a place she started just before Easter. My son was refused. I appeal next week on April 27th and I’m absolutely petrified. He’s been out of a school environment since Feb and home schooling isn’t going well anymore and I desperately want him to be with his sister again. The new school is wonderful.
He’s in Year 3 and was refused as the class was full but I believe they disregarded the fact he has SEN, gets a PP and has a sister there. Any advice for what to do/ say at the appeal? Thank you

Also I’m worried about how much to say about his SEN ( speech impediment) as I don’t want them to use it as a reason not to give him a place that 31st place cos of staffing issues etc am I best not mentioning that too much? The thing is it’s relevant in that it’s the main reason he was so unhappy at his old school.

Thanks for any advice given so far. All options and routes will be considered.

Also, Fiveforjoy ... sorry you are going through this. You’re right our situations are similar. I hope things work out for you.
Things seem so unfair, I can’t help but feel like my son has been fobbed off into a horrid school. I almost feel undervalued in a way, although I do know it doesn’t work like that.
I wanted so much more for him. I will definitely fight for him though, no way will I settle for less!

Good luck with your Son, I hope your appeal goes well for you. It’s just an awful situation I’m sorry x

@Johnsonp has anyone at nursery talked to you about an EHCP?

@Fiveforjoy Given your son is Yr3, this will not be an ICS appeal, so easier to win. You need to show the detriment to your son of not attending is greater than the detriment to the school of taking another pupil.

The fact his sister is there isn't particularly relevant (though do make sure the waiting list is ranked properly now she is there, many give priority to siblings), nor is his pupil premium.

Your better arguments are about his SEN and how the new school can help with those, as well as evidence that he wasn't coping at his old school and why this school is the best place for him. Are any of the classes at the new school over 30 already? (they should tell you) - this will help indicate that they can cope with another child.

Thank you. Yes there is one class ( year 5) that has 31 does that help me? The school can take 210 pupils but currently has 193 ..

Yes, it does help, as it shows that the school can and does cope with more than 30 in a class.

Anything you can provide should be evidenced with external reports as much as possible - a medical professional saying "this is the only school that would meet X's needs" is much more likely to carry weight than you saying it!

Also any evidence you have about why you had to remove him from the previous school. Lots of people cite bullying, anxiety etc without any external evidence, and so it's much harder to give those things weight without evidence.

Hi, is it okay to post our situation/get advice still?

Of course!

Great, thank you.

Okay so this is our situation.

We are in the process of moving, to live with my mum, who is elderly, disabled and has failing health. I am and will be her main carer.

When we submitted our school choices in January, we listed our current address (10 miles away), as our address (so total honestly approach). Not my mums
address which is in the catchment of the schools we applied for.

We spoke to both councils beforehand, to explain the situation. They both advised we submit supporting info, explaining the situation, when we selected the schools. The plan is my mums house will be our main residence soon (def before September school start).

However when school places were assigned (and after numerous phone calls), it came to light that our council didn't send the supporting info over.

Net result being we were given a school place closer to our current home and nowhere near our new home.

I got a job close to the new address, which takes me away from my child. If they are in school near our old house (they will be sleeping there), I'm going to struggle to have time to see them each night after school, as I'll be checking in with my mum, on the way home. I worry about the negative impact it will have on them.

I'm not sure if we have a case for appeal...or if we do, how we phrase it to them.

I'm not clear if your family is actually moving address, just you and not child or you are wanting a school near your dm home/your workplace. Most LA would not consider using a second address unless the child is resident there, and even then some not if there is an existing owned home within proximity. Does the school you want have a waiting list?

Sorry for the confusion.

Yes, we are moving and my mums will be our primary address.

We just weren't in a position to move before the Jan school selection (which complicated everything, especially as they ignored our supporting information).

If she has to keep her school place near our old address, then we'll have to consider her staying at our old address until the school place near my mums is confirmed. This is not how we want this to play put we want to move and have a place near my mums, before school start in September.

What grounds are you appealing on? If it is an Infant Class Size appeal you need to prove the LAs made a mistake and that their mistake has cost your dd her place.

We aren't selling our house. The only reason for the move, is to care for my mum. This will mean not living at our current address anymore, so will be rented out at some point (unlikely before September).

Even if the LAs had agreed to use your dm address in anticipation of a move would she definitely have been allocated a place at your chosen school/s on distance etc?

While she is not resident at your dm address your chances of getting in via waiting list are low, as local children will be prioritised above her, even those moving into the area later.

Yes, we've been told had the supporting information been taken into consideration (which prior conversations with the councils indicated they would), she would have got in. You can see the school from my mums house. I think we must be the closest too it.

@organisedchaosreigns Is this for reception, and is it infant class size?

The rules on address are that you apply from the child's address at the time of application. Then there is usually some leeway given for changes until a certain date, which is normally around Feb sometime. If you move after that, the original address is used and then you need to reapply when you get a new address.

Do you actually have in writing that the new council would definitely take an address so far in the future? If you still haven't moved, you are way past the usual allowance. Unfortunately a lot of council phone lines wouldn't appreciate the admissions rules and can give out poor/wrong advice. It sounds to me as if the mistake was someone telling you your new address could be used unfortunately. Did you apply under a social/medical criteria? I suppose it is not inconceivable that moving as a carer might be allowed under that, but you would know in advance had you applied under that and it been granted.

It's always worth trying an appeal as you never know, but I don't think the council have made a mistake in applying the rules (happy for you to PM me the councils involved if you want me to double check their policies).

As PatriciaHolm says.

I don’t see any evidence of a mistake here. The school/LEA has to work with the child’s current address. Statements along the lines of “we’ll be moving into the area at some point in the future” are (for admissions purposes) too vague and also prone to later being proved wrong - either because the move falls through or (sometimes) because parents are trying to get into a better school but never seriously intended to move.

The only thing that might make a difference here is written confirmation from the school/LEA that they were indeed willing to work on the basis of your mother’s address, but the first LEA failed to supply the supplementary information.

The other thing to bear in mind is that LEAs tend to be wary of applications from one address when the parent owns a house elsewhere, again because they are on guard against parents gaming the system.

You haven’t (unless I’ve missed it) said whether this will be an ICS appeal. Assuming for now that it is, I think your best tack is the “so unreasonable that no reasonable person would have made this decision” argument. You can argue that you have no choice but to move in with your mother to provide care, and that your child therefore needs a place in the local school to help them settle in the new area and make friends. Any letter you can provide from your mother’s GP or social services will help here, as will a rental agreement showing that your house in no longer available to you.

Thank you all for your advice, its really appreciated.