Page 2 | Bute 11+ leavers

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Grandjany · 02/05/2022 13:13

I think there may be tutoring for those at primary/prep schools which are non-selective as they may not cater as feeders for the very academic secondary schools. What really is bizarre, is if a child is at a selective school that is renowned for its academics and work ethic, is to feel the need to tutor. It should not be necessary; it can only be counterproductive long term. They are already set up with the right environment, both in terms of academic instruction, support, planning and guidance. I would be, I feel, deluding myself if I thought I could better that. The feeder schools you mention all have great platforms for 11+. They provide all the study materials for holiday preparation (Bond, CPG, S&S, Atom, BOFA, past exam papers and so on). If you need a professional tutor on top of that it’s a sign of desperation in my books. Your child should be okay to do their revision with a limited degree of surveillance on your part. If they are not, then they do not have the academic potential or drive to fit in at a top London school.

pkim123 · 02/05/2022 13:16

Grandjany · 02/05/2022 13:13

I think there may be tutoring for those at primary/prep schools which are non-selective as they may not cater as feeders for the very academic secondary schools. What really is bizarre, is if a child is at a selective school that is renowned for its academics and work ethic, is to feel the need to tutor. It should not be necessary; it can only be counterproductive long term. They are already set up with the right environment, both in terms of academic instruction, support, planning and guidance. I would be, I feel, deluding myself if I thought I could better that. The feeder schools you mention all have great platforms for 11+. They provide all the study materials for holiday preparation (Bond, CPG, S&S, Atom, BOFA, past exam papers and so on). If you need a professional tutor on top of that it’s a sign of desperation in my books. Your child should be okay to do their revision with a limited degree of surveillance on your part. If they are not, then they do not have the academic potential or drive to fit in at a top London school.

All fair, and as you've stated before, even a 135 ISEB isn't good enough for all schools, right?

Grandjany · 02/05/2022 13:44

135 CAT score is a great start, but not enough alone. Fit is important.

pkim123 · 02/05/2022 13:48

Grandjany · 02/05/2022 13:44

135 CAT score is a great start, but not enough alone. Fit is important.

So true, I remember you explaining that 135 ISEB was the highest score achieved at the school.

Grandjany · 02/05/2022 14:23

ISEB is different. It is the entrance exam used by London Consortium.

Grandjany · 02/05/2022 14:24

Top ISEB score is 142

SugarFlamingo · 02/05/2022 21:48

Grandjany · 02/05/2022 13:13

I think there may be tutoring for those at primary/prep schools which are non-selective as they may not cater as feeders for the very academic secondary schools. What really is bizarre, is if a child is at a selective school that is renowned for its academics and work ethic, is to feel the need to tutor. It should not be necessary; it can only be counterproductive long term. They are already set up with the right environment, both in terms of academic instruction, support, planning and guidance. I would be, I feel, deluding myself if I thought I could better that. The feeder schools you mention all have great platforms for 11+. They provide all the study materials for holiday preparation (Bond, CPG, S&S, Atom, BOFA, past exam papers and so on). If you need a professional tutor on top of that it’s a sign of desperation in my books. Your child should be okay to do their revision with a limited degree of surveillance on your part. If they are not, then they do not have the academic potential or drive to fit in at a top London school.

This is true and it should be the case.
In my experience all these platforms are enough with parent support of revision. But with most parents I know at these preps both parents work long hours in intense jobs, mainly finance doing long hours. They worry they can't do this support to the level needed, so pay a tutor to do it. We don't tutor but I am a SAHM so have time to help Dc.

I saw the new Bute head recognise all the pros and cons and reasons for tutoring, and warn of the risks of burnout at the wrong moment. It was realistic. I wish old advice of please never tutor was ok still but this thread shows all the reasons that can't happen. They know parents will tutor and there's nothing the school can do to stop it. It's nothing to do with bute, it's all preps around here.

Similarly I was at a talk for younger Dd last week and there was a real reassuring feel. There is so much care put into their processes. My Dh having had four children through three different preps is a harsh critic of getting value for money from fees and was impressed. I spoke with some year 6 parents and they made me realise it's a school that seriously thinks about small detail - there's so many extra lessons and help but all really subtle and normalised. I'm always told Dd1 is fine academically but she still gets spelling club .. my Dh remarked how DS school would have been charging extra Sen support fees for these sessions. It is obvious that the school know the London system inside out and think from low down in the school all through to get the girls to the right peak at the right time. Letting them have fun and relax in learning for most of their school time. So much more so than my DS school ever did.

Sad world that the preps alone aren't enough. I feel like bute does a good job on the inside of keeping pressure off till unavoidable when 11+ comes in.

pkim123 · 03/05/2022 16:49

Grandjany · 02/05/2022 14:24

Top ISEB score is 142

yes sorry, 142 iseb, 141 cat.

pkim123 · 03/05/2022 16:57

SugarFlamingo · 02/05/2022 21:48

This is true and it should be the case.
In my experience all these platforms are enough with parent support of revision. But with most parents I know at these preps both parents work long hours in intense jobs, mainly finance doing long hours. They worry they can't do this support to the level needed, so pay a tutor to do it. We don't tutor but I am a SAHM so have time to help Dc.

I saw the new Bute head recognise all the pros and cons and reasons for tutoring, and warn of the risks of burnout at the wrong moment. It was realistic. I wish old advice of please never tutor was ok still but this thread shows all the reasons that can't happen. They know parents will tutor and there's nothing the school can do to stop it. It's nothing to do with bute, it's all preps around here.

Similarly I was at a talk for younger Dd last week and there was a real reassuring feel. There is so much care put into their processes. My Dh having had four children through three different preps is a harsh critic of getting value for money from fees and was impressed. I spoke with some year 6 parents and they made me realise it's a school that seriously thinks about small detail - there's so many extra lessons and help but all really subtle and normalised. I'm always told Dd1 is fine academically but she still gets spelling club .. my Dh remarked how DS school would have been charging extra Sen support fees for these sessions. It is obvious that the school know the London system inside out and think from low down in the school all through to get the girls to the right peak at the right time. Letting them have fun and relax in learning for most of their school time. So much more so than my DS school ever did.

Sad world that the preps alone aren't enough. I feel like bute does a good job on the inside of keeping pressure off till unavoidable when 11+ comes in.

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Totally agree. The new head gave a great message regarding tutoring, way more realistic than pretending it doesn't go on. I think it would be lovely if all parents at all preps did no tutoring (& by tutoring I mean any regular extra work, regardless of who's doing it). I also wish we had world peace. Unfortunately, that's just not reality.

Also, if someone wants to do an extra hour of maths and hour of english with their DC, what's the big deal? Why is it considered wonderful if a DC does a few hours of music, drama, art or sport each week, but if you say "we do a few extra hours of enlgish/maths" people look at your like you're a bad person. I don't get it. If people want a totally non-competitive environment, then I'd suggest moving out of London. London is full of bright, driven people, don't be surprised when many of their children are smart and work hard. That's nothing to be ashamed of.

Grandjany · 08/05/2022 08:53

I agree with balanced exam preparation but I’ve heard mothers confessing to tutoring their daughters within 10 minutes of their lives to get into SPGS. Only yesterday I saw a boy who had just entered the Kings Scholarship for Eton who has clearly started self-harming. Some tutoring/studying practices are extreme and imbalanced. That’s very concerning.

HighRopes · 08/05/2022 10:14

Grandjany · 08/05/2022 08:53

I agree with balanced exam preparation but I’ve heard mothers confessing to tutoring their daughters within 10 minutes of their lives to get into SPGS. Only yesterday I saw a boy who had just entered the Kings Scholarship for Eton who has clearly started self-harming. Some tutoring/studying practices are extreme and imbalanced. That’s very concerning.

That’s so upsetting. And just not needed. I know that I’m not the only poster on these boards with a dd at SPGS via state primary and some basic tutoring on the stuff her primary didn’t teach.

Are the prep schools doing anything to counter this type of stress on the children? It sounds like a really tricky position for them, as the parents doing it are their paying customers. But I would hope the preps would be focused on the best interests of the children.

pkim123 · 08/05/2022 15:00

HighRopes · 08/05/2022 10:14

That’s so upsetting. And just not needed. I know that I’m not the only poster on these boards with a dd at SPGS via state primary and some basic tutoring on the stuff her primary didn’t teach.

Are the prep schools doing anything to counter this type of stress on the children? It sounds like a really tricky position for them, as the parents doing it are their paying customers. But I would hope the preps would be focused on the best interests of the children.

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I know several prep DDs that went to SPGS, honestly, they all seem really happy. Not a single one self-harms or has eating disorders. Just nice intelligent kids, all via prep school. No issues.

Takeitslow123 · 08/05/2022 21:37

This is such a weird thing to say. The year 6 girls did well and that is thanks to Mrs Lowe and her team and all the years leading up to Y6. The Y6 team are amazing too but I honestly don’t think the new head can take credit for their results!

as for tutoring etc. who knows what others do. My own Bute year 6 daughter this year had no external help outside the family and we trusted Bute, we trusted the old head and she got a fantastic results and offers. With no real stress or too much pressure. Everything we could have hoped for.

in our experience the school is just as good as its reputation and with no need for much extra help. But we as her parents have taken an interest in her Learning and what she can do and where she needed support. We didn’t pay a tutor but we took an interest ourselves .

enough from me!

Takeitslow123 · 08/05/2022 21:41

bjmin · 17/04/2022 11:57

@londonswmum

Hi all, I was wondering if anyone has heard anything re Bute 11+ results this year? They have not published anything on their website.

Yes, we've heard about the results. The new head crushed it, results are in-line with the Mrs Sallie Salvidant years. Mrs Lowe went for less academic students. Mrs Bradshaw did an absolutely brilliant job. Wow!

I was replying to this as it seems such an odd post. Quite unpleasant

HighRopes · 09/05/2022 17:00

@pkim123 I wouldn’t have expected otherwise, and didn’t mean to imply it.

I just was sad to hear what Grandjany said about levels of tutoring and pressure, and wondered whether prep schools do ever intervene if they think it’s getting out of hand. I can see why it would be difficult for them to do so, though.

On your point about extra maths and English versus music / drama / art, I do think it’s different. Music etc are not things that children spend time doing every day at school, so more time on them is refreshing and teaches different skills. I know they can also become competitive and pressured, but they are at least a change, and can be a break from academic work that is much needed.

SugarFlamingo · 09/05/2022 17:38

HighRopes · 09/05/2022 17:00

@pkim123 I wouldn’t have expected otherwise, and didn’t mean to imply it.

I just was sad to hear what Grandjany said about levels of tutoring and pressure, and wondered whether prep schools do ever intervene if they think it’s getting out of hand. I can see why it would be difficult for them to do so, though.

On your point about extra maths and English versus music / drama / art, I do think it’s different. Music etc are not things that children spend time doing every day at school, so more time on them is refreshing and teaches different skills. I know they can also become competitive and pressured, but they are at least a change, and can be a break from academic work that is much needed.

I have experience of 3 London preps, including bute. And bute is the one that does do something when the pressure is too much. Historically they have always been very clear pressure, pushiness and over the top tutoring is damaging. The old head would call parents in and be quite frank about it when needed. Senior schools also tried to relieve pressure through things like the consortium. Very hard as ultimately parents will do what they want , usually with the right motivations and belief it is best for their daughter. I'm sure I made mistakes at times and got it wrong occasionally.

I have another girl in the lower school as well as my older DD who has been through middle and part of upper- they really do keep the pressure off as long as possible. They have lots of staff who've been there a while who really know the drill and I trust their 'behind the scenes' processes work... So much more than my son's school in particular with non stop staff turnover and pressure with weekly tests.