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Primary education

Join our Primary Education forum to discuss starting school and helping your child get the most out of it.

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Original poster

Naughty children rewarded for being good

48 replies

UnquietDad · 06/01/2008 12:02

DD and I were discussing a boy in her class (Y3) who lives round the corner, and she said that he sometimes gets chocolate from Mrs S (classroom assistant).

"Why?" I asked.

"Well, it's because he is a naughty boy and if he's good for a week Mrs S gives him chocolate."

"So what do you get for being good all the time, DD?"

"Nothing."

"DO you think that's right?"

"No!"

Over to you lot. I'm sure you have views on this...

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dooley1 · 06/01/2008 12:04

Are you sure she's got that right?

emkana · 06/01/2008 12:05

Well I'm not sure about the chocolate, there might be better rewards, but it's reinforcing positive behaviour which is the way to go really isn't it? It is a bit off when the always good children don't get any recognition, at dd's school they get lots of stickers as praise.

kiskidee · 06/01/2008 12:09

children should not be rewarded for behaving like everyone else is expected to behave.

occasionally, i have "naughty" pupils who expect to be rewarded for doing what everyone is expected to do. I merely point out to them them no one else is being rewarded for behaving just like he has just done and so it wouldn't be fair to reward only him.

it is a key lesson to grasp if they want permanent behaviour modification instead of continual manipulation of a grownup.

GreenGlassGoblin · 06/01/2008 12:09

it's all rather prodagal son, isn't it? I never got that parable. Why get all the praise for being bad then being good when others around you are good all the time? Agree with your DD.

GreenGlassGoblin · 06/01/2008 12:10

praodagle prodigle gahh, you know what I mean....

Hulababy · 06/01/2008 12:23

I don't think they should be using chocolate.

However I have known these situations to arise, and TBH, most children in the class tend to just accept it in the end. Some are drawn up as agreements between parents and school as a way to address very challenging behaviour or if there are particular needs linked to the behaviour.

Rather than letting your DD feel it is unfair, just press home on here how well she is doing herself, and that hopefully these kind of rewards will help child X also be good all the time too, which in the end makes for a better classroom.

Normally these types of agreements are only used for a short period of time. And I have normally seen them using stars/stickers, not chocolate based treats. By using stickers it can be done more discreetly too.

AngharadGoldenhand · 06/01/2008 12:29

Say something to the school.

I did. My dd's teacher now gives out stickers to the children who are well-behaved all the time as well as to those who have more challenging behaviour.

There are also schemes in place for recognition in assembly of children who have been kind to others or sensible during lunchtime etc.

constancereader · 06/01/2008 12:37

Well, your dd does not get chocolate for being good - are you sure there isn't a housepoint system in place (or similar) which rewards good behaviour, work well done, good manners etc? If not there should be.

Pointing out to a seven year old that 'good behaviour is its own reward' is a rather pointless task .

moljam · 06/01/2008 12:42

my son is what youve described as 'naughty'-he has trouble consentrating and with his speech so can be quite disruptive.he has star chart in class and at end of week brings home colouring page to do.it works with him.i think chocolates are wrong thing to use but think you need to understand the children being disruptive do benefit from having rewards.

Original poster

UnquietDad · 06/01/2008 12:42

No, I know there is no "housepoint" system, although good behaviour and effort is praised and there is a weekly person nominated from each class, and a trophy to take home. So in general that side of things is good.

I'm not especially aggrieved by it, I just thought it was a bit , especially with the use of chocolate...

OP posts:

moljam · 06/01/2008 12:43

oh and forgot to say,whole class has reward system of some sort and they all get lunch time reward cards.

MaureenMLove · 06/01/2008 12:48

I had a similar conversation with my dd who is in Yr7. They had out merit point for good behaviour/good work and dd has had a few. She is good a school, always producing good work and I often get comments in her contact book and even letters home.

At the end of term before Christmas, they has an assembly where children were awarded certificates depending on how many merit points they had scored. DD got a bronze certificate for her efforts and for getting 10 merits. The boy who is distruptive and always in detention for various reasons got a Gold certificate for getting 25 merits!

He's a gobby little sh*t and when I asked him how he managed it, he said, 'well, you gotta know how to play 'em, ain't ya!'

HonoriaGlossop · 06/01/2008 12:51

so in fact your dd doesn't get NOTHING for being good all the time, she could/does get praised for good bwhaviour and effort, and can get nominated for person of the week and a trophy!

I think that's fine, tbh. The teacher has a class of 30 to control and motivate - and even, teach! - and they really must need something to motivate the difficult children. For whom obviously the normal rewards aren't working for whatever reason.

I think it's quite reasonable.

And it would be good to remind your dd that it isn't that they get nothing, it's that the difficult kids are just not up to their level and need some extra help.

edam · 06/01/2008 12:51

sounds like gobby kid will go far, Maureen!

Blandmum · 06/01/2008 12:56

Would you insist that only the brightest children get rewarded for accademic progress?

Would you insist that only those children who are top of the class get stickers?

I bet the answer is no. We would all prefer that children should be rewarded for their efforts, regardless of where they are on the accademic curve of the class.

the same is true for behaviour. Do you only reward 100% perfect behaviour? Or do you, as an adult, recognise that 'good' behaviour is harder for some children to attain than others?

charliecat · 06/01/2008 13:00

DD got put on the sad side for telling a fib and she was GUTTED.
Same day, a boy slaps a girls round the face twice.
Because it wasnt his usual headbutt, or kick and because hes always hurting someone NOTHING HAPPENED to him. It was put in a book...so theres a big list of all the injurys hes caused to others..and shit all else.
Not fair.
DD shouldnt have lied, but if it as her who had slapped someone, TWICE, then im sure we would have been called to the heads office. Pisses me right off.

moljam · 06/01/2008 13:03

good post mb.

Reallytired · 06/01/2008 14:09

Life is not fair. Some people are born with more brains than others. Some children struggle to understand what is socially acceptable in the same way that some children struggle to learn to read.

Some children get rewarded for just being bright. A gifted child might effortlessly be top of the class.

Prehaps the unfairness is that there is no way a middle ablity child who is naturally well behaved can get a reward. Prehaps every child needs a target to work on and a reward when they achieve it.

mimsum · 06/01/2008 14:17

ok, my ds is probably thought of by many other parents as one of the 'naughty' ones - he finds it hard to sit still, be quiet, concentrate, gets wildly over-excited, can be very disruptive if handled badly .. however he has TS and ADHD (among other things ...) so for him to behave in a way that isn't disruptive takes enormous amounts of effort - my other ds and dd are naturally angelic in class without having to make any effort at all. So would it be fair for my ds2 and dd to be praised all the time (which they are) and ds1 not to have any recognition of the herculean efforts he makes to behave most of hte time, even though to an outside observer he would still be 'naughtier' than the others?

He responds much better to positive than negative consequences and in primary school his class had a house point system, with the child with the most points at hte end of hte week being crowned king or queen of house oints - after a few weeks it was obvious to everyone that the real contest was for 2nd place and the teacher ended up awarding certificates for the top two places ...

motherinferior · 06/01/2008 14:18

I'm not sure about the chocolate, but do think it's a good idea if he's getting some kind of incentive to change his behaviour. And agree (again!) with MB.

Charliecat, I bet there's something overall going on with the boy who hit your daughter - I'd reckon he's being monitored or something.

MAMAZON · 06/01/2008 14:19

my son is currently in MS education.

to the children in his class he is just a naughty boy. to teh parents of the children in his calss he is just a naughty boy. in fact he is autistic.

he will get various rewards (though hopefully not chocolate) for good behaviour.

When you are training a dog you will give it a treat when it complies to what you have asked it to do. its a very basic way of explaining it but it is the easiest way for some children to learn. they associate the good behaviour with a treat, then as they imporve the treats decrease and the praise increases until they are able to behave accordingly.

I can see why it seem's unfair to your DD but as you have said that its nto the class teacher but a classroom assistant i would suggest that maybe this woman is not a TA at all and in fgact the boys 1:1 worker.

slalomsuki · 06/01/2008 14:26

My ds who was 4 at the time and had just started reception asked his teacher a similar question around why did X get a sticker on their chart after being naughty in the morning and good in the afternoon when he was good all day and got nothing. He told me the teacher said and I quote "lifes like that"
I asked the teacher and she said X was a problem but she had also told the other teachers about his comment and the year 2 teacher gave him a reward from her pile to make up for it.

I do have an issue here since ds is a well behaved helpful child who sits quietly and doesn't get attention when other get rewared for slight improvement in their attention/behaviour etc. I have brought this up with the school but not had a satisfactory reponse.

MAMAZON · 06/01/2008 14:30

your son will be rewarded by a good education.
he will no doubt get awards for his learning that the "naughty" child probably never will.

what his teacher should have said was that yes XX was naughty in the morning but he improved his behaviour in the afternoon. he got a sticker for this improvement.
she could then have asked your son if he could think of anything he could improve on and help him to do so in order to earn a sticker

Saturn74 · 06/01/2008 14:34

Excellent post, MB.

slalomsuki · 06/01/2008 14:37

The point is he receives an unequal education and certainly not a good education because time is spent dealing with the kids that need extra help etc and those who comply and work quietly get little praise.

I have asked same teacher for extra maths homework for him not because he is falling behind but does his brother years 2 stuff with little difficulty and was told that they couldn't help us there because they had no time to mark/correct or look at work outside of the classrooms setting. I am not saying he is G & T here but he is good and more importantly interested in it and he will switch off if not pushed.

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