Can I ask for ds to spend more time in the nurture room?

[elliejjtiny]

Ds is 7, in year 3. Diagnosed with what used to be called aspergers syndrome but is now called "autism with low levels of need". No ehcp at the moment although school have said he will need one before secondary school.

Every bedtime and every morning ds cries about going to school, clings onto my leg, begs me not to send him, says he wants to stay with me etc. School say he is happy most of the time at school but often refuses to do his work, especially writing.

School has a nurture room where children with special needs are taken individually or in groups to either have extra help with maths/english etc or to do intervention groups which is learning but fun as well eg my ds goes to a lego group to help him with communication/following instructions etc and there is a cooking group, art group, boccia group etc for children who need to work on other skills. There is also sensory equipment for those dc who need it.

Ds loves the lego group and for the first time ever actually looks forward to school on the day he goes there. He keeps asking to go to the nurture room on other days too. I don't want to be one of those parents who say it's not fair that children with special needs get more help than their child but can I ask for my ds to spend more time in the nurture room to see if it helps him with his learning or would that be unreasonable of me?

Your child does have special needs though! If an EHCP is being talked about, those needs must be fairly significant.

I think you should detail in writing the issues you're having and explain that you are concerned it may escalate to full on school refusal, and hinder his academic progress and engagement. Ask if he would be able to have some extra time in the nurture room - suggest it as a way to provide an incentive for him to feel more confident about going to school.

This is why you need to push for an EHCP and have those things included on the plan.

Diagnosed with what used to be called aspergers syndrome but is now called "autism with low levels of need".

Who is calling it that?

One thing jump out at me there. The school say he doesn't need an EHCP now but will later. He either does or he doesn't. Of he does they should be actively trying to get that for you now. That will detail his needs and how they can be met. (Whether that is by nurture, 121, additional support etc etc) I would focus on that rather than extra lego club...However definitely feed back to the school the impact that lego club has on him.

You really need to apply for an EHCP, don’t wait for the school do it now yourself. IPSEA have a model letter you can use.

You can ask, but unfortunately you can’t force the school’s hand. Whereas if DS had an EHCP with the provision in F you could.

If DS can’t attend school, including because of his MH and SEN, the LA have a statutory duty to provide alternative arrangements once it becomes clear DS will miss 15 days. So, if he can’t attend there is that option while sorting an EHCP.

Talk to school. Explain what he has been saying to you about school and the untrue room and then ask them what can be done to accommodate his needs.

It may be the nurture room is in too much use to be able to use but they may have somewhere else he can use.

Asperger’s is definitely not now called autism with low levels of need that’s really concerning, who told you that?

@Mumdiva99

One thing jump out at me there. The school say he doesn't need an EHCP now but will later. He either does or he doesn't. Of he does they should be actively trying to get that for you now. That will detail his needs and how they can be met. (Whether that is by nurture, 121, additional support etc etc) I would focus on that rather than extra lego club...However definitely feed back to the school the impact that lego club has on him.

When a school says this, they typically mean that his needs can be met within a primary structure (i.e. known consistent teacher, few transitions, known pupils, clearer more consistent routines) but are unlikely to be met as well on a secondary environment without enforceable paperwork and additional funding.

Thankyou everyone. It was the consultant who diagnosed him with autism said that he has autism with low levels of need and it's written in his diagnosis letter as well. I asked if that was the same as aspergers syndrome and the consultant said yes it was. I hate the term and his needs don't seem low to me when he is spitting at me, pulling the plaster off the walls or trying to lick the nearest lamp post.

Before covid I thought about homeschooling him but he seemed to hate learning at home even more than he hated school.

Don’t deregister. By EHE the LA will say you are making suitable alternative arrangements and therefore they are relieved of their duties. Crudely, if DS remains on the school roll, even if his MH and SEN prevent him from attending, you are someone’s problem, whereas if you deregister it is too easy for others to seeep his needs under the carpet.

The consultant’s wording sounds like another way of saying ‘mild autism’. Which there’s no such thing as. In order to get a diagnosis of autism one must have “persistent difficulties with social communication and social interaction” and “restricted and repetitive patterns of behaviours, activities or interests” that “limit and impair everyday functioning”. If someone’s difficulties were ‘low level’ or ‘mild’ they would not be diagnosed.

In many areas Asperger's Syndrome has been dropped as a diagnosis. My son was diagnosed 5 years ago and given the diagnosis of Autism, high functioning and I was told this would previously have been a diagnosis of Asperger's Syndrome.

I rebelled a bit because people took "high functioning" to be "low needs" and basically ignored many years of a child with DIFFERENT needs in crisis.

I suspect they will remove high functioning/low functioning and replace with high needs/low needs.

Anyway, I just wanted to say I'm glad some of the schools interventions are helping your boy. You can ask that he spends more time there but it may not be beneficial as it's more time he's away from group learning with his peers. It may be just what he needs for a short while to accommodate his going to school fears though.

Speak to his teacher or the SENCO about what you feel is working and what you feel isn't.

We've seen autism with low levels of need on diagnosis paperwork before. Without specifying each trait of the person being diagnosed (impossible), it gives a quick indicator of the need level. We used to see 'high functioning' which was similar. Ime low level of need refers to the person not needing physical support, being able to access mainstream education and able to learn at a similar rate to peers.

You can ask OP however there may not be the people available to make it happen.

I second all PPs saying apply for the EHCP now.

If you have kids with SN you need to stop worrying about being 'that' parent as you will have to advocate for them over and over again in their school life.

Definitely ask for him to go to the nurture room more frequently and look into starting the EHCP process. Secondary may feel a long way away but it took us nearly two years and you want to be looking at secondaries in year 5 so you can name one in year 6 (even if its just the catchment school).

I have 2 DC, one with Aspergers diagnosis from a few years ago, the other Autism Spectrum Disorder.

@Hercisback

We've seen autism with low levels of need on diagnosis paperwork before. Without specifying each trait of the person being diagnosed (impossible), it gives a quick indicator of the need level. We used to see 'high functioning' which was similar. Ime low level of need refers to the person not needing physical support, being able to access mainstream education and able to learn at a similar rate to peers.

You can ask OP however there may not be the people available to make it happen.

I second all PPs saying apply for the EHCP now.

I don't think it possibly can. Even if every single trait a person had were listed it wouldn't show the level of support needed for those traits, which will also vary day to day.

Rather than mild or low level needs would it not be better if professionals used the levels set out in the DSM. Level 1, level 2 and level 3. At least the levels stem from medical wording.

It's definitely worth talking to the school. For every parent like you, there'll be another offended at the suggestion that their child needs more time in the nurture room, so it can't hurt to let them know what you're thinking

It's always worth asking about more time in the nurture room, talk to the SENCO and try to discuss his needs.
But just to put another take on this from a staffing angle, children with an EHCP in the nurture room will have a paid for 1:1 whereas children who don't will most likely be sharing another child's 1:1 which can and does happen to allow children to work in small groups but dependent on staff levels and SEN need across the school the availability of this may vary.

Your child is diagnosed asd, that means that on paper he has additional needs. In some areas his needs may well be lower and lend more toward that of a NT child. However that doesn't mean that he has higher needs in other areas.
I'd arrange a meeting with the school to discuss what's going on with him, and discuss using the room more often.

Also most areas do not use needs levels anymore, due to the fact that the each child will have differing levels of needs in differing areas. So whilst that may be written on his diagnosis letter, I'd avoid using the terms as much as you can.

It could also be that he prefers to play with the lego in the nurture room. If he is in the nurture room, he won't be accessing the lesson being taught in the classroom.

You can talk to the school and let his teachers know how much you think he’s struggling and think would benefit from more small group interventions. You can’t ask for ‘more time in the nurture room’ and expect that request to be granted.

When our nurture room is used at school it’s timetabled for specific interventions with particular targets aimed at particular needs that children have. We can’t include all children who might benefit in everything because there just aren’t enough staff or hours in the day.

If you can get an EHCP then it will have specific targets in it for your ds, and maybe then it will be identified that he would benefit from certain interventions that the school already does.

One thing that is common to put in plans is that the child can signal the teacher they are feeling overwhelmed and need to go to the designated decompression space. I’m your son’s case that would be the nurture room.

So no, asking that he get more time there is not unreasonable.

And don’t let people derail you with the semantics of his diagnosis. It is really difficult to describe kids who would have previously been given an Aspergers diagnosis online. Any words you use will be picked to shreds. People get really touchy about it and there is no winning even though all you want to do is describe how your child functions in the world without writing 1000 words.

Thankyou everyone. It's really great to have that reminder that mild/low levels of autism is a relative term and you still have to have significant needs to get that diagnosis. I'll try and remember that the next time my family say "well he's not got proper autism" or "you can't just let him do whatever he wants and then claim disability benefits you know". Also it's really helpful to know that I should be asking for more small group interventions rather than more time in the nurture room. It's been really nice to see my ds happy to go to school one day a week because of the lego intervention group.

I think getting an ehcp for him is going to be the way forward and I will email the senco about that and about the possibility of more intervention groups. I think it's probably funding related how much children can get in the way of intervention groups. My older ds has an ehcp because he has learning difficulties and he is in the nurture room most days (but not all day), doing 2 intervention groups a week and also getting 1 to 1 support with his maths and english.

Can you work out what it is about the lego club that is making him happier? Is it that it's a smaller group? Or a less overwhelming place? Clearer expectations? Less academic pressure? Does he just like lego or playing? Is it something he feels good at that he doesn't with other work? Is it something about the teacher that he likes?

Some of those might be things they could replicate to an extent in the classroom, even if they can't give him more time in the nurture room, or don't have the funding or the staffing. If it's the feeling of competence, then they could arrange for him to 'show off' more in the areas he is good at. If it's a sensory/overwhelm thing, then giving him 'timeout' passes to go to the nurture room might help, even without any particular interventions. Or perhaps a corner of the classroom could be made quieter or less busy or whatever affects him most. If it's expectations or pressure or not being able to follow what is happening in class, maybe the teachers can modify the language and type of instructions given, to reduce the confusion, and make sure that the academic work/instruction is differentiated suitably. Etc. Maybe the lego club can provide insights into what else he is struggling with but possibly not able to explain/name, and then you can capitalise on that and expand those improvements into the regular classroom as well, even if he can't spent lots more time in intervention groups. (Although it certainly seems worth asking for that, too, especially if you can identify what bits of it are particularly helpful).

We were originally told that our DS’s autism is high functioning. The reality is that it isn’t remotely high functioning - he attends a special school and will never live completely independently. Your son’s needs are his needs and if you think he’d benefit from an EHCP then do go ahead and start the application process yourself. My boy loves Lego therapy too!