Mixed year group classes.

[Clevs]

Currently considering a couple of schools for our son to start in reception in September.

School A has a small (15) reception class then a year 1/2 class, year 3/4 class and year 5/6 class. Each year group has 15 pupils meaning each class has 30 pupils.

School B has a mixed pre-school (15) and reception (30) class but then each year group is just that year (30 in each class).

My current preference on school just for the general feel of the place when I looked round is school A. But would like experience of parents whose children are in mixed year groups. Do the younger ones struggle to keep up? Or the older ones held back because the younger ones also have to be considered? Apparently they are separated for things like maths where there is a big difference in ability.

Ironically I was in a mixed year group class for a couple of years when I was at primary school but can't really remember any benefits or issues!

I’d just add it’s been extremely apparent to me having children one year group apart in the lower years……

@taj0112

Absolutely I can’t generalise from our particular school - however I think it’s fair to think about how difficult it is to teach one class with a variety of abilities and then think how much more challenging it is to teach across two year groups as teachers on here have said, particularly the younger years? Our school has done the very best it could but even they admit it’s not ideal. Teaching one topic to two year groups you can never pitch it to suit everyone so my children are getting a less than ideal teaching experience because of that.

OK, so not what you said origianlly that they are all bad. As I said it totally depends on the school, my dcs teachers were all long serving at the school and were quite capable of differentiating the work. I also have dc one year apart so saw it in action.

My dc have left school now and so I can say for sure that going to a small primary didn't affect their academic progress negatively at all. But others will have a different experience which is equally valid.

@TizerorFizz

You can certainly generalise in the knowledge that toy tiny schools won’t have sports teams. Of hosts of children doing music. Or a huge choice of friends.

I dont know what your size definition of tiny is, I thought this discussion was about schools around 100 children which for my dc did allow for sports and music, in fact music was particularly strong. I agree that friends can be a issue but I went to a much larger primary and had classmates who struggled with friendships so I think that can be a problem anywhere.

Tiny is 100. 15 in a year not ever going to be great for music. No orchestra I would think snd choir would be difficult. Sport is a non starter with competing teams. No issue with infant schools being small but by juniors they offer less. It’s unlikely 30 children in y5/6 will all be good at music. No chance of a football team or even netball. I’ve actually known parents leave schools like this to get more variety snd a bigger school always offers more friendship opportunities., Size inevitably bring greater choice.

My dd went to a small village schools and they mixed ages up until the final year. My dd was no worse for her educational needs and is doing f well in secondary school

A single cohort in the final year is ultra expensive. 1:15 is very difficult to fund. Funding is based on 1:30 so costs must be cut elsewhere or the funding is ultra generous. Beyond most schools I think.

My own children went to our small village primary. It grew from 47 to 86 children while my children were there which meant the class mix had to change depending on numbers and sometimes 3 years were together. My children both did well and both seemed to make friends with children in the other year groups which didn't cause any problems. Those saying they miss opportunities for sport and music, this was not a problem at our school . There was a consortium of all the local village schools who all played matches against each other. This was a positive because due to low numbers in year groups, however good you were you always got the opportunity to play. This didn't happen in other larger schools. It would always be the same children, the better players picked for the team . They also paid for external football coaches to support them. The girls also got an even chance of playing in the football team as well. There were county sports days when all the small schools would compete against each other and larger schools grouped with other large schools.
With regards to music, they had several peripatetic music teachers who taught a range of instruments and would encourage a small orchestra. My daughter carried on playing through secondary school after her introduction at primary.
You have to go with your gut feeling when visiting a school as it's really the head and all the staff that make the difference.

Our school (90 kids) has a visiting music teacher and sports teams (before covid hit at least). We actually used to win a lot of tournaments.
Not always the case. To me it depends a bit on the types of teachers you have. We had a PE leader who was very passionate about it all and got the kids out to all sorts of tournaments.

Yeah I don't get the sports and music comments either. We play against other small schools and every child in the year plays - so 100% of children get the opportunity to play every few weeks as opposed to perhaps the 10% of children who made the team at a previous school I taught at. We also have 4 visiting music teachers and all children learn an instrument as a class in KS2. Regarding not being able to pitch lessons right, in most single year classes you'll have high ability children and children working below National Curriculum levels, so it doesn't make much difference if the remaining children are one year group or two. I'm not sure some of the posters on this thread have even experienced small schools, they're just making assumptions. I do agree that more than 3 year groups in a class gets very difficult.

I would absolutely avoid if I could, but in many small villages this is the norm and can be okay.

My observation (after DDs attending 5 schools) is that as they got older, some (not all) find a small school claustrophobic. It can be really hard for those who don't 'fit in'.

However... my DD is having the same issue in a year group of 60. No one that she really gels with.

With sports, music etc I found being in a smaller group gave more opportunities. If you need 10 kids for a netball tournament, and there's 15 in the year... thats a lot better odds of getting a chance if you want it. Repeat for other sports. A choir can take anyone.

I guess that depends if boys are playing or if you are just picking from the girls!

I think DC don’t necessarily want to play if they are not very good either. Who wants to be forced to play because it’s a tiny school?

I think the quality of music is inevitably compromised with just 60 possible instrument players. I wouldn’t know of a school where all junior age DC play! So it’s obviously a small group who do. I think for older children it’s limiting in many ways.

As for not having friends with 60 in a year group. Yes some DC always struggle but far more do with only a handful to choose from. Cliques form and there is literally no one else. At all.

Our experience was that we were lucky with friendships but that I could see it getting trickier the older they got.
Anecdotally, of all my friends with children, the ones that had the most difficulty were in schools with 60-90 intake and the ones that found it easiest were those with 15-

[quote taj0112]@TizerorFizz. This as well - friendships and the social learning is a huge issue. Not many to choose from at all particularly if the school is mixed. I did think it was cosy before we started and now I can see the problems. Also can’t really play any team sports.[/quote]
I definitely agree about the friendships - most years it works out OK but some years there are difficulties because there is such a small pool of potential friends to choose from.

I disagree about sports teams / orchestra (as per PP) though - this will depend on the school you choose. We don't have an orchestra but we consistently win football, tag rugby, hockey, rounders and some more niche sports in our county. So if orchestra / sports teams are important to you, don't rule a small school out but ask and find out what their provision is.

Thank you everyone for sharing your thoughts and experiences. Some things have been mentioned that I'd not even considered such as friendship groups and sports teams.

My husband has only seen one of the schools and has left it to my judgment on which to pick. I'd really like him to see the other one (school A) so he can see why I loved it and so it's not all down to me.

Decisions decisions!

We moved house last year and the kids went from a very large (multiple classes per year group) to a school like your school A. They were in year 1 and 3 when moved and they've both come on leaps and bounds since we switched. They are split up for maths, spelling etc and given different ability tasks for project work etc. I was unsure when we started but am now so pleased we picked this school.

Not everyone has the choice of a larger school. In rural Hampshire most schools are mixed year groups with 100 or so pupils in the school. It depends how important competitive team sport is to you when you get to KS2. Is it worth driving 8 miles to a school in the nearest town which you wouldn’t get a place at for Reception but might in KS2 - movement to private and larger classes create spaces.

A bit of an update...I asked our little one earlier what colour uniform he wants to wear when he starts school and he said 'red's without giving him the choices. Red is school A's colour😆

I'm obviously not going to choose a school based on his opinion of the uniform but found it quite funny 😂

It’s funny, in threads about state schools, small class sizes & small schools are seen as awful & terribly problematic for friendships. Go read the private school v state school threads & everyone’s banging on about how great small class sizes are for kids education

We go to a one form entry, 30 kids a year. Village school. In semi-rural Yorkshire, that’s the biggest size school you get. There are about 7 schools in my area & 5 are one from entry & 2 are tiny. We don’t all live in big towns, cities & suburbs yet kids in the countryside do manage to make friends, get an education & do well in life! I went to a tiny school in the same area myself, went on to settle easily in high school, I have a degree, I have a masters & I'm doing well in life. I have friends to this day that I made aged 5 in my tiny school.

We love our school. Couldn’t fault it. It’s great for reception aged kids & it’s great for yr6. Pick the school you like best. Check the wrap around care if you need it. If extra curriculars are important, find out what they offer. To be honest, we don’t use the extra curricular stuff at school. My DD does swimming, gymnastics, art club & stage school after school & at the weekend. We don’t need anymore! But there is a KS1 & KS2 choir, a KS1 & KS2 football team. A KS2 netball team & rounders team in summer. It’s really not that hard to form a sports team in a small school

@Zolla
They are not wrong about smaller classes in private schools. However there might be 3x16 in a class. They will be together for sport and often mixed up for other lessons. If the prep is single sex, you have the same friendship options as a larger state school. Also when people pay they rarely think they are making a mistake. Whatever way you look at it, 8 girls or bots in a class doesn’t provide much choice.