Primary Maths and English- state vs private

[ConfusedaboutSchool]

My DD is at an academically selective private school in Reception. We also have a younger daughter and I'm debating if its worth putting my second in from reception or instead to wait for the 7+ and save £60k.

We have outstanding state primaries we could get into but without having used them I don't know if my daughter could get the same level of extension in the state system. While my second is still young, she seems just as able as my first.

The reception class as a whole will cover the Reception and the Year 1 curriculum by the end of this academic year. However my daughter gets additional extension in school as follows since the start of this term:

1. She's completed the reading scheme (up to lime / band 11) and is now a free reader
2. She is doing year 2 spellings and some year 2 grammar
3. For math she is working with numbers up to 100 and is learning mental math techniques like bridging to 10

In her class, particularly for maths, she has at least 3 other children doing the same extension work with her who she can work with.

For those of you with able children in state school, is this level of extension ever be feasible? She loves what she's learning and loves school and its the exact right academic pace for her. Still part of me wonders if our state schools could offer the same and I'm making a silly assumption thinking they can't and wasting money. There are other benefits like forest school, french, music lessons etc but before age 7 that alone wouldn't be worth it to me if she could get the same academic work in the state system.

Thanks for any insight you can share

State schools cannot provide the same level of enrichment overall that you get with private. But that's not to say that state school kids won't outperform them later academically.
It's really the right fit for the right child that matters.
My DD went to a 'satisfactory' primary and received an educational that was good in parts and average in others. I thought she was above averagely clever but not gifted. Her sats were good and she sat the 11+ (selective grammar) and scored much higher than I would have expected.
She's half way through her GCSE's now and could well walk away with a clean sweep of 8/9's in all subjects. I wouldn't have predicted that at primary.
I think it's best to offer your child the best all round environment that you think will suit them.

Assuming your DD2 is offered a place at your DD1’s selective private school, this option is a known quantity. A local state school might offer your DD2 similar academic opportunities, but it might not, even if it is ‘outstanding’. Policies on teaching reading, for example, can sometimes hold advanced readers back until they have covered all the sounds within the class. In the long run, this probably wouldn’t matter, but in the short term you might find such an approach frustrating, when compared directly with your DD1’s experience.

You might be lucky with your teachers and the other members of your DD2’s class in state primary. My DD has been fortunate with her cohort, which consists of a couple of really bright kids, a lot of ‘middle’, and nobody that is particularly demanding and disruptive. Her YR teacher was experienced and easily able to differentiate, as was the Y2 teacher (Y1 less so). She’s now in Y6 and is happy but not really challenged at school. However, she’ll be heading off to a super-selective state grammar, so we’re happy.

I have no experience of the private sector, but if I were in your position I’d go for private from the start for your DD2 if she gets offered a place. The worst that can happen is that you’ll always wonder whether they’d have done just as well in the state sector and saved you some money. If you opt for state for DD2, I think you’ll have more regrets about how she didn’t get an equivalent experience to your DD1, even if you are fortunate with the academic side.

If DD2 will be going to this school eventually I think there is much to be said for starting her there in Reception. PP’s have given the main reasons.

But I agree with @TizerorFizz that lateral extension and deepening are generally recognised as the best types of education for talented children, particularly in science and maths. As STEM academics, colleagues and I have sat entranced during presentations by education researchers linking up primary school topics with Yr 1 uni material in maths, physics and computer science.

But whether a given school can and will provide appropriate extension for a given child is a bit of a lottery. By no means am I knocking advancement, but it is obvious that eventually one will run out of curriculum. Do pupils take GCSEs/A Levels early? Not knocking that either, if there is good provision for the freed up time…..

You have to be careful about picking off A levels early. A lot of universities look for them all taken in one sitting. Teachers at academic schools should be able to extend the curriculum. However I think broadening the curriculum in primary does require expertise. It’s important primary teachers have it!

OP, the comment about timing A Levels from @TizerorFizz is interesting. When I was a (Russell Group) Admissions Tutor my School did not care so I was unaware of this. The school sounds good so one presumes they have thought this through. Perhaps at some point they switch to lateral extension?

My daughter is really young so I haven't asked in detail about how they manage it in secondary as its a bit presumptuous. However, the school did say that the kids in the gifted and talented scheme are given he opportunity for independent study beyond the curriculum and the opportunity to study for further qualifications.

This wouldn't be a one off for my DD but a long standing programme that involves a reasonable number children within the school so I don't have any concerns that they don't know how to manage it vis-a-vis university requirements. The pupils go to top universities in the UK and abroad and have a Higher Education support team in place to guide the children through the process.

Thanks for everyone's messages. I think I've decided to stick with things from Reception if my youngest DD gets in but I think I'll always wonder if it was worth the tremendous amount of money it will cost...

To bring a slightly different perspective. We are coming out the "other end" of schooling having been in the independent sector throughout.

After ours had started school, I came to feel that my strongest reason for feeling glad we had been able to access the independent sector* was that it kept them at arms length from government interference in their education....

That particular benefit reduces substantially as you reach yr 9+ and into exam years, as the constraints of syllabuses and exam requirements impact everyone even though the independents can be more flexible.

• we rather jumped in than planned; and as things turned out have been grateful for specialist schools then scholarships and bursaries to make this possible. The "outcomes" I look for are much more than just exam results; given our own backgrounds, our children were likely to perform strongly in academics at any suitable school.

I have a child in private and a child in an outstanding state. I’m happiest with the state. I’d choose the state option for my oldest if I had my time again. The things that are lovely in independent schools

• the sport, breadth of curriculum, amazing facilities etc impress me way more than DD. The pressure that she’s been put under since year 5 for 11+ has been awful. My youngest DD is happy, cared for and I’m very happy with the level of extension she’s receiving - there are extra groups and clubs for her. Yes, she had less sport because her school day is shorter but she stays on for netball. She’ll have forest school until year 3. It’s finding the right state school that’s the challenge and making sure your in the catchment! My eldest was is a really crappy state but moved for year 3 - no tutoring, no extra work and was fine moving into the independent system. Save your cash!

My experience is an admittedly small school but one I know attracts a more academic cohort than other schools round here. What I've seen is that what does fall off for the more able children is how much active teacher input they get. The reality of class sizes of 30, who don't normally have a general TA beyond reception, is that the teachers are stretched thin. It's very clear from DS's work in year 2 that whilst his group are set work aimed to challenge them, it's work aimed to be completed largely independently because there are other children in need of support to meet the expected standard, who aren't as capable of working independently. DS has been read with individually once this term, because even with several volunteers they have to prioritise, and there are children who need it a lot more (e.g. because parents don't read with them). I'm fine with that, I think learning to work independently is a good skill, but when we sit down and work together on homework I can tell there are times he would benefit from one to one time.

OP would you mind sending me a PM with the name of the school? We have an advanced child (born end of May so youngish in year, free reading now in preschool) due to start reception in September. I hadn’t even considered private school for him but reading this thread wonder if that was perhaps a mistake.