Daughters school place

[RedCandyApple]

Don’t know if this is the right place but dd is in year 6 and has asd, she’s 10, has an ehcp, 1:1 all day at school (never left alone) she has severe behavioural problems (is aggressive to several members of staff) I was told at her last annual review that mainstream secondary will be fine for her. Despite me disagreeing, she has not one single friend in her school as she is mentally far too behind her peers. She lies on the floor screaming has regular melt downs, spends most of her time at her work station instead of her class room but despite all this all the professionals involved said mainstream. I decided myself to apply for sen schools and go against their suggestion of mainstream but low and behold today get a letter that she’s been accepted into the mainstream school next to our house?! She can’t go to mainstream, I won’t be sending her there. What next? I guess I have no choice but to home Ed which was my plan if she didn’t get into an sen school. I’m just so annoyed the school wouldn’t support me in this, I knew I didn’t stand a chance getting her into an sen school with no support from the professionals involved.

Are you following verbal conversations up with emails so you have a paper trail of evidence?

Many SS, even indie SS, don’t allow parents to self fund. And the ones that will, for OP’s DD’s needs, are expensive. LAs often pay over £50k or even £100k for SS places.

No I can’t afford private I’m a single parent.

We haven’t visited the school as I didn’t consider it an option so didn’t feel the need to visit, I know the school very well it has quite a reputation in the area and not for good reasons. She’s working at year 3 level I’ve been told.

Have you looked at schools that have an integrated resource? There's one in our area so you get some of the support of a sen school but it's also a mainstream school too.
I think you are being harsh to dismiss the school instantly without even looking round or talking to the senco. Ultimately you may decide that you need to home school but you should make that decision with all the facts rather than assumptions.
Also as a single parent how are you going to work if you're also homeschooling?
Hope you find a good solution.

I was given mainstream instead of special so went to tribunal. Incredibly stressful, but the only option and we won.

I don’t work, I’m her carer she gets dla and I get carers allowance. I’m not accepting mainstream it’s not an option, I don’t need to look I know my daughter and I know it’s not right.

I just think you'd be in a far stronger position if you had the school saying they couldn't meet her needs, which won't happen unless they see the reality of what you're posting here.

I know my daughter, she has no social awareness she doesn’t understand social norms, she licks bins, she licks the floor, she takes her clothes off in front of anyone as she doesn’t understand why that isn’t ok, she still has accidents and I’m expected to send her to a mainstream school where she will be bullied and taking the mick out of and won’t be able to tell me because she can read and write. I don’t think so. She isn’t able to be left alone at all she is supervised all day at school and I’m expected to believe she will do absolutely fine in a mainstream, I don’t think so. Her last school trip in December they didn’t take her out without 3 members of staff because they know what she is like.

@Lougle

I just think you'd be in a far stronger position if you had the school saying they couldn't meet her needs, which won't happen unless they see the reality of what you're posting here.

They won’t, her primary school won’t admit to it they play everything down and says she’s fine even when she isn’t.

Why does her present school play everything down? Surely they would be emphasising her difficulties to try to secure additional funding? It sounds like a nightmare situation.

Without wishing to speak for Lougle, I think she means if the secondary said they can’t meet DD’s needs. You stand a much better chance at Tribunal if you have actually looked at the school and spoken to the staff, it will help you build a stronger case.

@RedCandyApple

Mainstream isn’t an option at all it just isn’t, can I ask why people are so against home educating? It will be better for her than mainstream she will not cope. She is not coping at her primary at the moment and often refuses to go.

I think people are suggesting for you to send her to the mainstream school in an attempt for them to realise she should be in a special school and help you push for that.

I understand you don't want to put your DD through that.

My concern with the home educating would be that the powers that be would simply be pleased not to have to deal with the situation and you will be stuck. Also, your own mental health if you don't get a break?

I agree with a pp who said you need a solicitor.

Wishing you all the best

Has she definitely been turned down for a Special school place?

LAs can vary but usually the process for Special school applications is that cases go to a Panel and then you get a letter telling you the outcome and what steps you can take next, e.g. appealing.

This is separate from and trumps the general admissions procedures for Year 7 transfer. For children with EHCPs, these have to be completed by mid-February, so slightly earlier than Offers day. Children therefore won't be without the offer of a named school place if their case has not been heard at Panel by the deadline.

Contact your LA SEN team and ask when your application for a Special school place is being considered. (Unless it's been heard and turned down, in which case you would have had that in writing, along with information on how to appeal).

If her case hasn't yet been heard, then accept the place offered, even if you don't want it, as the LA will have fulfilled its duty by offering a place and, as PP has said, it becomes more tricky to work outside the system.

If she gets a place at Special school, this over-rides the offered mainstream place, which will then be offered to the child at the top of the waiting list. If she doesn’t get a place, then you can still reject the mainstream place later if you decide then that you will home-school her.

If her case has been heard and the place refused, are you still within the time-scale to appeal? If so, then do that, unless home-schooling is your preference above Special school.

If you're out of time, then you'd need to find out what the LA policy is on re-applications. Chances are that there will be a time within which they won't accept them, and/ or they won't accept without new evidence.

In the post today I have received a letter saying the following, Please find enclosed a copy of your child’s amended final education health care plan, you will see in section 1 that your child has been offered a place a x school from September 2022.

She really doesn’t sound like she’s working at year 3 level if she can’t read and write and has no social awareness. Can you challenge the school on that? On paper, a year 6 working at a year 3 level does not sound too bad and would not meet the need for SS provision but from why you’ve described this is absolutely not the case. I would challenge the schools on their assessment of her academic and social skills if they think she’s at year 3 level. I would definitely appeal. As a pp has said home school may be difficult due to the strain on you. I understand mainstream is not an option. You will need to appeal the decision but you need evidence she is not at the level they say she is

I am sorry sounds a nightmare.
Are you flexible where you live? Somewhere in England there is a all girls government school for girls with Autism.
I spoke to a law firm recently (they gave me free 15mins) who specialise in helping parents get school places for children with SEN. They explained with a ehcp a child will be allocated one school and if the parent refuses this the ehcp won't be supported at another school. I did think the parent had some input in the school choice though.

Going from personally experience (my niece):
My sister had to send her to mainstream due to being turned down from an additional, after 2 months if became very clear that my niece could not cope in mainstream, so was taken out, 2 months later she got the place in the school they had initially applied for.
I understand your adamance surrounding mainstream, I really do. However, it may be an option just to really highlight the issues and difference between her peers and push for a review at appeal.

@Andacherryonthetop

She really doesn’t sound like she’s working at year 3 level if she can’t read and write and has no social awareness. Can you challenge the school on that? On paper, a year 6 working at a year 3 level does not sound too bad and would not meet the need for SS provision but from why you’ve described this is absolutely not the case. I would challenge the schools on their assessment of her academic and social skills if they think she’s at year 3 level. I would definitely appeal. As a pp has said home school may be difficult due to the strain on you. I understand mainstream is not an option. You will need to appeal the decision but you need evidence she is not at the level they say she is

I was surprised that she is apparently working at year 3 considering she spends less than 50% of her time in her actual class room and needs regular breaks. She has a work station outside her class where she spends most of her time and all her work needs to be amended for her to do it. They said she wouldn’t do any work unless it was about princesses so they had to change it all to be about princesses otherwise she wouldn’t do the work

Like a pp has said, I worked in a school where we had a severely autistic child.
In this case, the parent's insisted on mainstream whilst the primary suggested a specialist setting.
It didn't take long for it to become abundantly clear that the child could not continue in mainstream.
They were out and in a specialist school by October half term.

Does starting at mainstream and it being obvious that she could not cope, open up doors to specialist provision?

Contact IPSEA for advice. I believe you can book an appointment online via their website.
Have the LA completed the annual review process and named the mainstream secondary in section i of the EHCP? They need to do so, as this then triggers your right to appeal.
Have the LA consulted with any of the special schools in your area?
Sorry, lots of questions, but contact IPSEA.

@RedCandyApple sorry I missed your post saying you received the plan today. I understand the accompanying letter should include details of your right to appeal to the first tier of the tribunal. I believe you can do this online.

Personally I wouldn’t be mentioning your plan to home Ed if specialist provision isn’t offered.

ittakes2 Parents get to state their preferred placement, and unless the school is wholly independent the LA must name the parents’ school preference unless they can prove:

• The setting is unsuitable for the age, ability, aptitude or special educational needs (“SEN”) of the child or young person; or
• The attendance of the child or young person would be incompatible with the provision of efficient education for others; or
• The attendance of the child or young person would be incompatible with the efficient use of resources.

If the LA name a school the parents don’t want they can appeal to SENDIST.
If the parents don’t appeal or lose (although most appeals are upheld) and the parents don’t send their child to attend the named placement and e.g. EHE the LA will say they are relieved of their duties as the parents are making suitable alternative arrangements.

If the OP moves LA she needs to be aware the new LA will review and potentially amend, reassess or even cease to maintain the EHCP. The school you are probably thinking of is Limpsfield Grange in Surrey. If OP’s DD needs a MLD school it won’t be suitable.

@RedCandyApple

Yeh I do understand that but I was told by sendiass to apply for schools for children with MLD not SLD which is what I did. Mainstream is not an option so I guess it’s home Ed for me.

That isnt ow admission work

The EHCP is reviewed annually at in Y5 the ECP review should consider secondary transition. LAs then work in slightly different ways but the 'papers' go to a panel and pupils are matched to schools (very simple overview!)

Did her updated EHCP say mainstream?

You will have to fight, fight and fight. As I am sure you are aware, there just aren’t enough schools or places that can meet the needs of those children who fall in between not being able to cope at mainstream but not being “bad enough” to warrant a school for severe additional needs. In fact, there’s not even enough places for those with severe additional needs.

A close family member was in the exact same position as you a couple of years ago. The DC is now at an amazing school for MLD and is thriving - for the first time in her life she has friends and all of a sudden she’s the clever one in the class. But the years running up to this, including her primary life, were rubbish.

You have to keep pushing and pushing. Appeal. Request further specific information from a wide range of professionals. I know you are dead set against it, but right now I would be making a right pain in the backside of myself with the SENCO at the school you have been allocated. They can be a HUGE help to you if they support your statement that they cannot meet her needs. I would take a list of scenario type questions to them and ask what they would do in each. A good area to rummage around in is any aspect of personal care your DD might struggle with. Also, instances where she is violent. Situations where her behaviour would be seriously disruptive to other students etc.

Please don’t ignore this extra resource you have been given. All it takes is for them to turn around and say they can’t meet her needs and then she has to go somewhere else. Just talking to them doesn’t mean you are going to send her there in September. You can still HE if you feel that’s what’s right for her and you can do this last minute.

SENCOs love it when they get the right environment for each child and that doesn’t mean it has to be at the school where they work.

If you live in Bucks then this school is fab:

www.alfristonschool.com/our-school/admissions/

Tbh the adjusting of work to suit area of interest does t necessarily indicate she's not working at a suitable level, nor does being outside the class.

I really recommend IPSEA. I am now a barrister but as a student (who had a first class law degree and a masters and was only 3 months from qualifying as a barrister) used to volunteer for free and support and often represent parents in similar situations at educational tribunals. (I only say about my background so you realise that often volunteers are highly qualified and can support you just as well as a qualified barrister). They are absolutely amazing and volunteers also often have personal experience of the same thing.