Independent and Prep Schools in London (Ideally Camden or Central London)

[LeoOliver]

I would be very grateful if I could have some advice from the parents on this site. I am consider sending my child (girl) to an independent/prep school. The primary reason why I considering this route is because I want my child to be fluent in French, Spanish and Mandarin. I would prefer a catholic school but open to other schools. I would be open to state school if the language provision is good. I want my child to have a good foundation and well-rounded education thus I am keen to choose a school that will provide my child a good solid ground in STEAM subjects as well as an appreciation for the art. Sports and extra-curricular activities are also importance. I want to send my child to a school that will put in good stead for secondary school. It probably too early to state what secondary school would be right for her, however I am hoping to that she will go a grammar school. I am hoping that St Michael’s Grammar would be suitable for her but will also consider HBS. My daughter is mixed race so I hoping to send her to school as diverse as possible as I don’t want her to feel the odd one out.

Please can I have feedback on the language provision and the overall quality of education in the following schools. Additionally, please can you comment how diverse the school is:

St Mary’s Hampstead
Sarum Hall
The Village School
Hampstead Hill
Cavendish
South Hampstead
Channing
Highgate
Devonshire House
City of London
The Gower schools
Charter House
The lyceum

Please feel free to provide any suggestions.

The Hampstead schools aren't particularly diverse, but I can't imagine any of the schools on the list would mean she's the only person in the school of colour. I base this on knowing a few parents at the schools mentioned and North London well.

The City schools I can't comment on.

The private schools south of the river are more diverse, the brilliant Jags in Dulwich and in Croydon HIgh and Old Palace, both are great schools, all have intake at 4+ and have a more diverse student body than North London, it's just the demographics of London.

I honestly don't know you'll get the level of language excellence you expect from many of those schools. My daughter went to one and we looked at many others. Language provision isn't great. In the end, she left junior school with extremely rudimentary French and that's it. If language is your motivator, why not look eg at a lycee or something.

@LeoOliver , you need to be realistic about the teaching of languages in the U.K. ! Gcse level is no where near fluent - it's still fairly basic - and it's difficult to take more than 2 language GCSEs unless you study 1 extra outside school as your home language.

There is a school called Kensington Wade in Fulham that is Chinese immersion.

I'm assuming those are languages spoken at home? St Michaels don't do Spanish or Mandarin, and HBS doesn't offer Mandarin. NLCS and St Pauls do, but they are of course private.

At primary, language provision is going be rudimentary at best in reality, unless you pick somewhere that really focuses on one language (such as the immersion schools)

This list is very strange! Some of these schools have completely starting and finishing years and then boarding and non boarding.

You need to tell people how old your DC is otherwise this makes little sense and no one can't give you proper advice.

No school so going to teach your child to be trilingual, however marvellous they are

Language provision is quite limited in private preps as far as I can tell.
St Mary's is catholic I think and has a reasonable record of getting girls into NLCS.
Most of these schools are not truly diverse: White, Jewish and Asian kids, in that order, not many other ethnic groups to be honest. That's my experience.

If you want her to leave for secondary don't pick channing, city, Highgate or south Hampstead. Their job is to prepare for their own senior schools and filter out the less bright kids. So not good for prepping for other schools.

Bear in mind that language provision will be no more than two 40 minute lessons a week which is hardly going to make them fluent by the time they leave primary. My eldest is 9 and has been doing French since reception class - they're still only learning how to say how many family members they have 😂. Mandarin has been running for a term and for now it's just how to greet and introduce yourself.

My DCs are at one of these schools on your list and I've visited several of the others. The demographic in Hampstead independent schools is predominantly white, quite a few white European families, some Jewish families also and then a handful of south Asian, Chinese and Japanese families. We are a non white minority ethnic family in the area and we don't feel marginalised in any way if that's what you're worried about. We've been through a few of the local independent nurseries and schools throughout the years with the DCs and found the local school communities very inclusive.

@morecookies

The Hampstead schools aren't particularly diverse, but I can't imagine any of the schools on the list would mean she's the only person in the school of colour. I base this on knowing a few parents at the schools mentioned and North London well.

The City schools I can't comment on.

The private schools south of the river are more diverse, the brilliant Jags in Dulwich and in Croydon HIgh and Old Palace, both are great schools, all have intake at 4+ and have a more diverse student body than North London, it's just the demographics of London.

Thank you for your feedback. I will have a look.

Thank you for your suggestion of Lycée.

May I ask what school your daughter attended?

[quote sunshineclouds24]@LeoOliver , you need to be realistic about the teaching of languages in the U.K. ! Gcse level is no where near fluent - it's still fairly basic - and it's difficult to take more than 2 language GCSEs unless you study 1 extra outside school as your home language.

There is a school called Kensington Wade in Fulham that is Chinese immersion. [/quote]
I agree the teaching of languages is poor in this country.

My understanding that both St Michael Grammar and Henrietta Barnett have a very high percentage of pupils studying two languages.

@MajesticWhine

Language provision is quite limited in private preps as far as I can tell. St Mary's is catholic I think and has a reasonable record of getting girls into NLCS. Most of these schools are not truly diverse: White, Jewish and Asian kids, in that order, not many other ethnic groups to be honest. That's my experience.

If you want her to leave for secondary don't pick channing, city, Highgate or south Hampstead. Their job is to prepare for their own senior schools and filter out the less bright kids. So not good for prepping for other schools.

Thank you for the feedback.

@PatriciaHolm

I'm assuming those are languages spoken at home? St Michaels don't do Spanish or Mandarin, and HBS doesn't offer Mandarin. NLCS and St Pauls do, but they are of course private.

At primary, language provision is going be rudimentary at best in reality, unless you pick somewhere that really focuses on one language (such as the immersion schools)

Thank you for feedback.

Yes the languages will be spoken at home.

My understanding that both St Michael's and HBS teach both French and Spanish.

@ItsRainingTacos

Bear in mind that language provision will be no more than two 40 minute lessons a week which is hardly going to make them fluent by the time they leave primary. My eldest is 9 and has been doing French since reception class - they're still only learning how to say how many family members they have 😂. Mandarin has been running for a term and for now it's just how to greet and introduce yourself.

My DCs are at one of these schools on your list and I've visited several of the others. The demographic in Hampstead independent schools is predominantly white, quite a few white European families, some Jewish families also and then a handful of south Asian, Chinese and Japanese families. We are a non white minority ethnic family in the area and we don't feel marginalised in any way if that's what you're worried about. We've been through a few of the local independent nurseries and schools throughout the years with the DCs and found the local school communities very inclusive.

Thank you for your feedback.

It seems the language provision isn't that great.

I want my child to be fluent in French, Spanish and Mandarin

May I ask why? Are either you or your DP native speakers of these languages?

I too think you are overestimating language teaching (and indeed what independent schools can give you). No matter the school, all children study with a view to passing GCSEs at 16 and A levels at 18 should they choose.

The number of GCSEs you c an take is limited, and generally any child from any school will choose a combination of subjects that includes one or two foreign languages. Personally, I went to a comprehensive secondary and I got two A* in French and German so I’m not sure why you think only independent schools teach two languages.

Both my children are at independent school and learn French. Until Y7 however (which is when most children start learning a foreign language), it’s very easy and gentle. Greetings, vocabulary and basic sentence structures (usually descriptive).

My point is, unless you go to an immersive school eg the lycee, or unless you take extra classes outside of school, or unless you are native speakers of other languages and are prepared to work at home, there is absolutely no school which will teach your daughter fluency in three languages. Even the very “best” of secondaries will not aim to teach more than two languages to gcse level. One of the reasons for that is that they want to make sure the child has a balanced education with good attention to other subjects.

You need to remember that simple speaking another language isn’t an employable skill in itself, it’s what you are able to do in that language which matters - unless you want to become a translator or interpreter, but even these roles are few and far between in comparison (meaning very restrictive job choices).

Best of luck.

It seems the language provision isn't that great

Compared to what though? Is there another subject you would want less focus on in the curriculum for example?

I think you either need to look for an immersive school, or else accept that you will have to put in a lot of time and money outside school to reach these goals. For example, I have friends from China whose children speak mandarin at home, they go to an English speaking school here, where they learn a little French. However, they still have to go to mandarin school on Saturdays for several hours a week with a significant amount of extra homework, despite speaking the language as their mother tongue.

@SonicBroom

I want my child to be fluent in French, Spanish and Mandarin

May I ask why? Are either you or your DP native speakers of these languages?

I too think you are overestimating language teaching (and indeed what independent schools can give you). No matter the school, all children study with a view to passing GCSEs at 16 and A levels at 18 should they choose.

The number of GCSEs you c an take is limited, and generally any child from any school will choose a combination of subjects that includes one or two foreign languages. Personally, I went to a comprehensive secondary and I got two A* in French and German so I’m not sure why you think only independent schools teach two languages.

Both my children are at independent school and learn French. Until Y7 however (which is when most children start learning a foreign language), it’s very easy and gentle. Greetings, vocabulary and basic sentence structures (usually descriptive).

My point is, unless you go to an immersive school eg the lycee, or unless you take extra classes outside of school, or unless you are native speakers of other languages and are prepared to work at home, there is absolutely no school which will teach your daughter fluency in three languages. Even the very “best” of secondaries will not aim to teach more than two languages to gcse level. One of the reasons for that is that they want to make sure the child has a balanced education with good attention to other subjects.

You need to remember that simple speaking another language isn’t an employable skill in itself, it’s what you are able to do in that language which matters - unless you want to become a translator or interpreter, but even these roles are few and far between in comparison (meaning very restrictive job choices).

Best of luck.

Thank you for feedback.

I want my child to be fluent in these languages as it part of their heritage. I want them to be able to converse and read in the mentioned languages so they can communicate with family etc. However, I am not sure what the best way of going about.

My understanding that children in state school learn one MFL in year two. The local state school in my area generally teach either French or Spanish. The nearest state catholic school is generally considered to be a good school. The percentage of children reaching the expected standard in English and Maths is good particularly when you consider their intake. In addition, they have a significant percentage of children who achieve the higher standard in English and Maths. I cannot comment on the breadth and depth of the rest of their curriculum and extracurricular activities. The standard of education is probably not comparable to prep/independent school but for a state school it probably does provide a good education in terms of what you can get in the state sector. The school teaches Spanish, but the teaching is very basic (virtually non-existent), and they only teach it for 2 terms a year. I am happy to pay for extra tuition and supplementary lesson, however, my only concern with this approach it may leave little room for other extra-curricular activities, nor do I want my child to be overly stressed. My child would have to do a significant amount of studying outside school hours. For this reason, I would be happy to pay for a private school if they were teaching languages in school hours because that would free up my child time to do other stuff. I may be wrong, but my understanding is that generally in prep/independent school they start teaching MFL at earlier and in some schools, they teach more than one language. A minority will introduce/or expose children to a third language. Hence my post; I’m trying to gauge whether is worth paying for private education for my child.

My child is still very young so it is very difficult at this stage what would be the appropriate secondary school. I just want her to have a good foundation.I would prefer her to go to a grammar school. We are catholic family my first choice would be to send her to St Michael’s. I would also consider HBS. My understanding is that in these two school a high percentage of student study two languages, which is another reason why I would my child to have learn the languages from an early age. I am hoping my child will have a love and aptitude for languages. I would love them to study two languages at GCSE Level, but I would never force them if they didn’t want to, or it is not the right thing for them to do. My understanding is private schools like most state secondary schools generally do not study more than one language at GCSE level.

@preppingforlife

This list is very strange! Some of these schools have completely starting and finishing years and then boarding and non boarding.

You need to tell people how old your DC is otherwise this makes little sense and no one can't give you proper advice.

I am confused by your comment. Why is my list strange?

The schools I selected start from nursery, reception or 7 plus. Also I haven't selected any boarding schools to my knowledge.

My child is still young but my understanding is that you need to register your child at least two years but they are due to start school.

@LeoOliver , there is a large boarding school in Surrey called Charterhouse which is where I think the confusion stemmed from.

No I was definitely referring to the one in Central London.

For this reason, I would be happy to pay for a private school if they were teaching languages in school hours because that would free up my child time to do other stuff. I may be wrong, but my understanding is that generally in prep/independent school they start teaching MFL at earlier and in some schools, they teach more than one language. A minority will introduce/or expose children to a third language

I see where you’re coming from from your reply, but I think you’ve misunderstood the system. You’re correct that at independent schools they start teaching a MFL earlier but as several of us have said, it’s very gentle and not a significant part of the curriculum. Those that do a second language before Y7 generally do it as an extra curricular activity, maybe 40 mins a week after school, and it’s very basic. Also, there’s no benefit the primary / prep schools pushing languages to an advanced level at an early age since they join with children from other schools at Y7 who may have never studied them, and like I said… they’re simply teaching to the GCSE syllabus.

My understanding is private schools like most state secondary schools generally do not study more than one language at GCSE level

Personally I have never heard of a school that doesn’t offer two languages at GCSE level. Have a look at the websites, most independent schools are very clear about what they offer. Usually, children have to choose three subjects from humanities (eg geography and history), and languages (eg French, Spanish, German or Mandarin). I wonder whether GCSE level will be enough for you though, you’d be waiting quite some time for the school to teach your children to a level at which they are able to converse. I think your best chance of achieving what you say you want is talking with your child in these languages at home if you say it’s part of your heritage, and supporting that with private classes (a big time commitment).

To be honest, languages are not the reason people choose an independent school unless it’s a specialise / immersive environment. I appreciate it’s difficult navigating school systems, how this has helped.

*hope this has helped

The last thing to say is that if a school has a particularly high proportion of people doing foreign languages, it might be more reflective of the parent community - ie you might find more families who are native French / Spanish speakers in the area or the school

French, Spanish and Mandarin are all available at Highgate (and many of the others on the list, I imagine) but the children can only study two of them, not three, and fluency isn’t really achievable from school alone.

@SonicBroom

For this reason, I would be happy to pay for a private school if they were teaching languages in school hours because that would free up my child time to do other stuff. I may be wrong, but my understanding is that generally in prep/independent school they start teaching MFL at earlier and in some schools, they teach more than one language. A minority will introduce/or expose children to a third language

I see where you’re coming from from your reply, but I think you’ve misunderstood the system. You’re correct that at independent schools they start teaching a MFL earlier but as several of us have said, it’s very gentle and not a significant part of the curriculum. Those that do a second language before Y7 generally do it as an extra curricular activity, maybe 40 mins a week after school, and it’s very basic. Also, there’s no benefit the primary / prep schools pushing languages to an advanced level at an early age since they join with children from other schools at Y7 who may have never studied them, and like I said… they’re simply teaching to the GCSE syllabus.

My understanding is private schools like most state secondary schools generally do not study more than one language at GCSE level

Personally I have never heard of a school that doesn’t offer two languages at GCSE level. Have a look at the websites, most independent schools are very clear about what they offer. Usually, children have to choose three subjects from humanities (eg geography and history), and languages (eg French, Spanish, German or Mandarin). I wonder whether GCSE level will be enough for you though, you’d be waiting quite some time for the school to teach your children to a level at which they are able to converse. I think your best chance of achieving what you say you want is talking with your child in these languages at home if you say it’s part of your heritage, and supporting that with private classes (a big time commitment).

To be honest, languages are not the reason people choose an independent school unless it’s a specialise / immersive environment. I appreciate it’s difficult navigating school systems, how this has helped.

I am referring to entering for more than one MFL at GCSE level. I aware that many schools offer more than one of MFL to study, however, my understanding that most pupils only study one MFL at GCSE level. MFL have been in declined since it stopped being a compulsory subject.

The responses have been very helpful.

@Bosephine

French, Spanish and Mandarin are all available at Highgate (and many of the others on the list, I imagine) but the children can only study two of them, not three, and fluency isn’t really achievable from school alone.

Thank you for your feedback.