Not really primary, more nursery, but seems the best place for it - what to do with a bright 4yr old///////

[TheIceQueen]

who is obsessed with numbers and maths, but who can't yet read??? (disclamer, he's probably not that bright, probably just average, but a LOT further ahead than DS1 was at the same age so "bright" to us)

DS1 (7) has struggled with maths a little in the past (flying now) and we've bought him some of those "I can Learn" books (from Wilkinsons) to help him practice at home. DS2 (just turned 4) also wanted one so I bought him the one for younger kids.

He understands all of it, today was filling in numbers (he's taught himself to write all the numbers) that were missing from number lines, finishing off drawing shapes and naming them (out loud). He wanted to make a start on the adding up page - but called it a day for today as I didn't want to feel like I was "pushing" him. Problem is that he can't read AT ALL - and at the moment shows no real interest (he can right his name unaided, but I think he does it on letter "shapes" rather than names - as he threw a tantrum yesterday when his older brother "used the letters from his name"....and refused to understand that they share several letters).

Anyhow, I digress, he LOVES to do the pages from the book on his own, if you try and sit and go through it with him he doesn't want to know. But it's getting to a stage with the book where he really needs to be able to understand what he's being asked to do on the page......and I'm not sure what to do with him now.

Are there any easier (less wordy?) maths practice type books for 3/4yr olds available. Or should I just leave him with the one he's got and try and distract him with other things if it's something which will be "beyond" him because of his lacking of reading....

His writing isn't great, very small and neat - but oddly formed letters/numbers when he copies them...but am not too worried about that as I guess he'll learn how to do them properly when he starts school next year.

He's really thrown me, as DS1 showed NO aptitude for maths until he was half way through YR1.....

Mix up the learning - it doesn't all need to be book based. Play snakes & ladders etc so he learns to recognise numbers from the dots on the dice and sees the larger numbers up the board. Ditto card games.

Practice counting in 2s, 5s, 10s etc.

Counting in 5s will be very useful for ... Telling the time - start with the o'clocks (on the hour) and then half-past and take it from there.

We learn adding up whilst driving - we started with numbers that add up to 10 and now my 4 & 6yo know them by heart. If I shout 6 + ..., they answer 4!

Given his lack of reading skills I would also start using phonics cards to learn the basic sounds and/or read some Get Ready books, like Oxford Reading Tree Stage 1.

Why not let him do the books that don't give written instructions? Let him do lots of number lines and shapes if that's what he enjoys. How about dot-to-dots? Number dot-to-dots and there are letter dot-to-dots if you wanted to see if he liked them. Colouring in.
Also if he wanted to try the adding up page why not let him. Him wanting to do something isn't you pushing him.
I would let him do the bits he wants to do.

I'm presuming that he wanted to do the workbooks like his brother which is why I didn't mention learning outside of the books. As theduchess indicates, there's lots to do outside of books if that's more your focus.

dd happily did the Letts (I think) Get Ready for .... books which are aimed at Preschool age, puzzles and dot to dots. You can get mazes etc as well (helps pencil skills) with erasable pens

Thanks

We already plays Snakes and Ladders, and he already recognises the numbers up to 71 (as far his Snakes and Ladders board goes LOL), although he can't actually write them down if you ask if IYKWIM.

DS1 loves doing the adding up to 10 thing as that was when he finally "grasped" maths.......but is it really a good idea to do something which he'll then "relearn" in 2yrs time when he gets into yR1???

He's not interested in learning to read AT ALL. And TBH I'm not bothered, DS1 couldn't read until after he started school, and although he was "slow" to get going there's no stopping him now.

Ooooo I'd forgotten about his Dot-to-Dot book he got for his birthday, I'll find it out and see if he's go any left otherwise another trip to Wilkis/99p shop may be in order.

I don't mind him trying to do the adding up, it's more the "reading" issue - he doesn't want me to help him read the instructions so he knows what to do......but then he sits there and says "What do I do" [frgin].

Juule - you're right we have focussed more on the workbooks - because he wanted to do them like DS1 did. Although we've always done "maths" type stuff outside.......thankfully the "shape" obsession seems to be waining slightly now........very tiring walking to town and having to name the shape of every single paving slab we stand on.....especially when there are circles, squares, rectangles, triangles etc etc etc .

LIZ - I'll keep my eye out for those Letts Get Ready books.....I'm sure I've seen them somewhere before.

Never having had a child who was so interested in learning in such eager fashioin before school age .......especially in my weakest subject.....I was totally flumoxed!

he sounds very like my ds who was 4 in oct. He adores numbers and can count up to 100 and is now recognising 200,300 up to 1000 etc. I just leave him to do things as he wants. He can do basic adding and subtracting up to 10 so 1+3= etc. We have a few of those type of books you mention and when he is in the mood he will sit and do them if not then thats fine. He is just reading and I just encourage it by phonetically spelling out words for him in a robotic then merging way.

The oddly formed letters are normal for their age aswell as how they see the letters may not translate into how they draw them.

Within nursery teachers have mentioned he is advanced but then they are also comparing him to some children who have only just turned 3. I just hope he continues to be as enthusiastic as both dh and I were like this until we hit seniors

oh no he forms his letters quite well - but doesn't seem to grasp that they are "letters" as opposed to shapes........actually come to think of it I'm not sure where he gets his pencil skills from........friend of mine is a TA at the local school, but also helps with our toddler group - she was genuinely amazed by how small and neatly he wrote his name.....and of how nice and neat his little pictures are! Certainly doesn't get it from me - I can't draw to save myself LOL.

lol its a skill..ds still takes up a whole card to write his 4 letter name

he obviously has a very mathmatical brain if he sees letters as shapes...

definately dot-to-dot books.
Could you make your own worksheets for him? That way you can use the concepts but have pictures explaining what to do?

Instead of helping him to read the instructions can't you read them and then tell him what's required?

My dd was also 4 in Oct and is doing the same things as Nemo's ds. However, we compare her to our ds who started in reception at school at 4yrs 2months (july birthday) so we don't think of her as bright but more disadvantaged by the September cut-off for school. She is at the nursery attached to a private school (where ds attends) so she is being given 'work' which is appropriate to her abilities rather than her age (but our main reason for putting her there was because it fits with our school-run/childcare needs,it would be a luxury otherwise.)
We gave both the children a mini-white board for Xmas and dd likes to have sums written on hers for her to do (so did ds at this age). Also numbered dot-to-dots are big favourite. Also number bonds to 10, counting in 2's and 5's and counting money, talking about how much each coin is worth etc. Oh, and she found ds's book of phonic sounds and has learnt them, so she has now started on learning his 'tricky words'. As long as it is driven by her and she is having fun we are happy to play our part, I guess.
With dd I am helping her with letter formation because I was much more laid back with ds..didn't correct his letter formation (he was writing a little before he started school), and he ended up having to re-learn it over 2 years once he started school. It really held back his ability to express himself in writing. With dd I am correcting one letter at a time and we talk about the basic shapes that make the letters (eg. the curves of a, g, d being similar)

juule - he'll have none of it from me helping him read the instructions......he has a very stubborn streak.......have no idea where from ....and when he says he doesn't want me to help read the instructions he means it LOL.

No, what I meant was that you could read the instructions without him knowing and then when he wants to know what to do you could tell him without reference to the instructions. Or doesn't he want you to tell him what needs doing, either?
Hmmmm, think I'd stick with the preschool books that have been mentioned, that don't have instructions.

Also try encouraging him in letter recognition while out & about, "look there's a "W" like in your name" or that sign says bookshop etc as well as getting him to spot speedlimit signs & numbers which he can already do.

My DD2 got really exciited one day (age 3) as we went shopping "look mummy a Sarah, a Daddy & 2 Annas" We were next to ASDA!!