Are bigger always better?

[FazedNConfused]

Last moment to change my mind, having a wobble. Two schools, both academies with good Ofsted but both quite deprived. Loved them both upon visit, fantastic staff.

A) Big school, current choice. Average results, 3 form entry, near current house but somewhat limited housing options in the area and we need to move.

B) Small 1 form entry with class sizes of about 25, so less friend choices. In a mixed area with both deprived middle class children attending. Better housing options. Fantastic results for all types of students, both disadvantaged and high achievers, but few extra curricular activities.

I was in love with school B until MN pointed out problems with funding and friendships. Parents from both schools are very pleased but tbh both schools seemed fine upon visit.

No I don’t think bigger is always better. If you loved the ethos and feel of school b stick with your gut. Everyone knows each other far more at smaller school for example, you can take your child to other extra curricular activities if that’s important and also widens their circle of friends etc. Go with your gut!

You need to find out exactly what the school is like. Consider important things like after school activities, level of homework, quality of the lessons etc. If you can, read a up to date OFSTED report and talk to a few parents, teachers and pupils about what they think of the school in question. Also try to see what a normal school day is like, take a look at the classrooms and observe two or three lessons as well. Make notes in addition.

Presumably you have to decide today! I think that there are pros to larger schools in general, as you have mentioned. However your post shows a clear personal preference for school B. You are comparing individual schools, and school B may well be better in your case.

Re. the friendship issues, there is a chance of issues anywhere. Yes there are greater 'risks' in terms of boy/girl split, no opportunity for mixing classes, but having more children is no guarantee of avoiding issues. Also some children may find a smaller pool easier to navigate.

Larger schools also allow more grouping across the year but again if school B has better results, they are doing something right (or possibly have a different population to start with).

I would’ve gone for B. What are the benefits of A? I don’t see any.

I suppose there's nothing'wrong' with school A and it's currently local. They have better facilities, after school clubs and it feeds to ok secondary.

School B has lovely family feel but I'm now worried it will be claustrophobic for DD when she's a bit older. It feeds to secondary that currently has some issues with management.

With the small school it will depend far more on the class. You get a great class and it'll be fantastic. Get a poor class and you're stuck with it.
For example I am my siblings went to a one form entry (no class size back then)
Dsis-class of 42-45, a group of about 6-7 boys who nowadays would probably have 1-2-1s for behavioural issues. A group of very cliquey girls who ruled the girls side and decided who they were speaking to today and the rest followed suit. Whole range of academic abilities from very bright through to still struggling with the basics despite extensive help at the end of primary.
My class: 28-30 throughout. One child who got hyperactive off artificial colours but other than that, no behavioural problems. One of the girls was a bit bossy, and occasionally one of the others challenged her, but generally we all looked after each other. I didn't have a best friend, but always had a group to go round with. Academically no really high top, but no bottom either-it was once commented after IQ testing that they'd never had a form that all scored above average.
Dbro: 30-33 in class. Roughly between the two in everything.

Dsis would probably have been better at another school, me not, dbro probably didn't matter either way.

I loved being at a single entry. You knew which classroom you were going to. You generally knew which teacher you'd get next year, and the year after. You knew most people in the school etc. It was very safe.

My dc went to a large school. Lots of different people. Lots of opportunities. Lots of after school things.
All advantages.

But, you also have to throw in that lots of opportunities are also potentially shared between more children. Dc1 got offered loads, dc2 got some, and I don't think ds got offered more than one in the entire juniors even though they were quite similar in terms of abilities.

They can get lost in the crowd. So although there is person A who would be their ideal best friend, they never actually properly come across them. There are children in the year that they never really got contact with.

Mixing the forms up every year is a current fad. My observation is that sometimes it can be a good thing to mix. One of mine had a very imbalanced set of forms with personalities/SEN/academics very different in each form. Mixing them up on the whole was better for most children. Sometimes you get two children who don't get on. Splitting them is good for all. Ditto bullying, moving apart is helpful. Having the ability to do that though I think is good.

On the other hand when it's done every year I saw children who struggled socially give up on making friends. Because they took time to get comfortable and make friends, only to find they were being split the next year. My observation was it benefitted mostly the confident children who made friends easily-exactly the opposite to what you'd want.

Things can get hidden among bigger problems. One of my dc has a physical disability. I spoke to the SEN department before she arrived about allowances. When I came to ask after Christmas why none of these had happened, they hadn't even told the SEN department she'd come, so the SEN department had assumed we'd sent her elsewhere. Because there were bigger issues for the school, hers got generally forgotten about.

So I'd say look at your dc. Will they do best at being a little fish in a big sea, or a big fish in a little sea.
One of mine did well in a big sea. The other two I'm not convinced it was right for them. We didn't have a choice round here though.

Have a look at both schools and make your choice. Chances are they'll be fine at either.

I count 'small' as being mixed year classes rather than one class per year entry.

One of the schools DDs attended had between 7 and 25 in a year. (Depending on how many kids there were of each age around, only school in the area). The problem spot seemed to be the classes with 10-14 in the year. Smaller than that, they all got on. Bigger, they split off into different groups. But the couple of classes in the middle, there were one or two kids that just didn't have a group. Usually they then socialised with older or younger pupils.

My younger DD is currently having friendship issues in a 2 form entry school, so bigger is no guarantee.

What does your gut say?

Moved our daughter from a 3 form school with over 650 kids to a tiny village school with 9 kids in her class. It's been lovely. The amount of attention children get in the small school is amazing. Also, children from the whole school play together. I think there is real value in multi age group friendships as well. Everyone knows everyone. We love it. I would anyday opt for smaller class sizes.
For you, 25 is not really a small class size. So I wouldn't consider that point in your decision making. All the best.

I would go for A because of the reasons you've stated (funding and friendships). But if it's partly linked to a housing decision, then it sounds like there would be an option to get into School B at a later date (classes of 25 sounds like it is undersubscribed) if that became significantly easier.

My daughter goes to a 1 form school 25 to each class and its one of the most sought after schools in the area. I personally think smaller is better!

Classes of 25 is not an undersubscrition problem. Its a small scale school. My daughters intake had 43 applications and 25 places. No options to transfer in at a later date unless a child leaves the school.

I was in love with school B until I asked MN for advice, and I'm just not so sure. School A is currently my first choice, deadline is tonight!

School B feeds to 'worse' secondary school, at least at the moment- not sure how much changes in 7 years before my daughter goes to secondary? I'm now also worried about lack of funding and extra curriculars. Head teacher is lovely.

School A seems perfectly fine to me too although I didn't fall in love with it. I was told bigger schools are easier for the teachers, transition to secondary and for friendships. DD is not very girly so might have better chance of finding more girls like herself there perhaps? She's quite bright so would do ok. Feeds to good secondary. More difficult housing options for us though although not impossible.

Having a right wobble.

My DC go to a small primary and have thrived. We chose the one which felt right.

7yrs is a lifetime in terms of change.

And my DD isn't girly and to reassure you, she has mostly male friends, some female friends who are similarly inclined and friends who are the epitome of girly. Same as me really. I don't need identical interests to make friends. DD's best mate is football mad. She loathes football. It's the source of half of their banter.

To be honest, I think a child who has good family support and is mostly bright will thrive wherever assuming both schools are good and they meet their needs. Go with a school you love over one that feels fine.

I think bigger primaries are better if your child is needing extra support as they have probably got more option to move kids around.

Mine went to a small primary and did fine.

Moved mine from a 2 form entry to a 15 in a year group entry with mixed classes. The two form entry had worked well for DD1, and in the infant school, but the juniors was badly managed and behaviour was running out of control and not being dealt with if it was a child from one of the Head's favourite families walloping other kids.

DD2 was getting lost in the big year group against kids who shouted louder - as a very placid eager to please and well behaved kid with a language disorder - she basically had shut down completely and the class teacher viewed all kids as potential plague carriers so was quite happy to spend the year stood at the front avoiding children completely.

Moved them to a smaller school - the staff all know my two now, they're all fully aware and on-board with DD2's diagnoses (which the SENCO in the junior school had refused to accept were valid - despite being from a NHS paediatrician) and understand how to support her. DD1's struggled socially somewhat - but she was going to find the year rough anyway as her best friend had moved away and the class bully at the old school had her firmly in her sights - but because it's so small, the teacher's managed to set up a little circle of friends group for her which is paying dividends now. She's calmed down a lot rather than having to go overboard shouting for attention in a large and very very confident (lots of strong personalities in her old cohort) year group.