She's not selected. Maybe it's not a bad thing. - no sleep series 1

[mumcantrelax]

Just share. If any advice, bonus!

DD1 was rejected by 2 super selective schools in North London. I feel disappointed. For me, it's hard to accept. Story was that we didn't prepare at all for the 1st school. She didnt know how to write her name at the assessment. I was naive and I believed what the school told me at the open day which is no need to teach her anything. Then we learned from our mistakes and we prepared a lot for the 2nd school. We finished schofield books and we practised cutting and reading for a couple of months. We were also very lucky that I guessed some of the questions right so she practised them before hand and she was told she's a star at the assessment and I was told she as the only one got this comment in her 5 girls group. However she was rejected again. To guess the reasons that she was rejected by 2 schools, I would say that she's not ready to listen and follow instructions. She is only going to do things that she's interested in. She wanted to go to the 2nd school after open day visit so she studied with me. She likes to explore herself than be told what to do. She isn't chatty to someone she doesn't know so she probably didn't do well in 121 sessions. Having said that as always - it might not be a bad thing for her. I am always worried highly competitive environment at super selective schools could cause mental problems for young girls. Also I am not sure if it's a good choice to stay in one school from the age of 4 all the way up to 18. Well, I don't need to worry now. She didnt get in.
Now the question is what school is good for her. Friends seem to be important for her. Outdoor space is also important as she likes to run. A school culture that encourages individuality and fit in a strong-willed child would be a great match. I have high expectations on academic results but this comes after above.
By the way I am super curious about those girls who were selected by these super selected schools at 4+, how are they doing 20, 30 years later in their lives. I did a quick search. Very few names were noticed. What about the others? Are they happy with their lives?

Kids that get all 9s would get them at any school, and most unis now favour those who get them from a state school, as they’ve had to work harder for them.

I did a quick search. Very few names were noticed. What about the others? Are they happy with their lives?

OP, it is hurtful when others don't see the same potential in your child as you do- but I'm guessing these schools are looking for something specific, and if they don't see that in your DD. In the long run that's OK, because your DD will be happier somewhere else.

The super selective schools near me don't have an impressive alumni at all. The state comprehensive I sent my DC to has a surprising alumni in the arts and sports.

Oh OP, I completely understand how you feel - my DD also didn't get selected for the super selective N London schools either. We only just found out this week so still feeling bruised. I'm sure we're feeling the rejection worse than our DDs - I haven't even told my DD that she was being assessed, just given a chance to visit schools and to play (which she always enjoyed).

We had a few back up schools lined up (some of them required assessments too, which she did get offers for, but they aren't as selective). Did you apply for any other schools? We are probably going to opt for a completely non-selective prep, with location being a major deciding factor (we will move so it will be our local school, within walking distance). Quite a few of the non-selective preps I've spoken to have vacancies, so it's definitely worth ringing around. There will be a fair bit of movement with waiting lists for the less selective preps, once final offers for the super selectives are made (on 31 Jan), and of course families have moved out of London. Which ones you contact will depend on where you are (or if you are prepared to travel) - e.g., Heathside, North Bridge House, St Mary's, St Margaret's have been mentioned on here before. Worth subscribing to the Good Schools Guide for a month to get an overview.

Also, worth mentioning that tonight is the deadline for state primary applications! Definitely worth putting in an application for your local schools even if you're fairly certain you'll go private, as you never know if your circumstances might change.

OP Just applying to schools unsuccessfully is not going to hurt your child or stop her having a happy childhood-unless you let it. You sound so worried about this, it's clear you want her to have the best opportunities in life. How you parent her will have a much bigger effect on her life chances than what school she goes to. You come across as an intelligent woman and you say you did well at school. Mother's educational attainment is a hugely important factor in how well kids do in life, so that's a good start! I suggest you take a step back and engage your critical thinking skills here to decide what school would be best for your DD right now. She likes the outdoors and having fun, many schools can provide that. Going to school in a local area, so she can make local friends for play dates and socialising is a big plus. If she is an academic highflier then you have options for her to move at secondary level to address that. Please don't think your DD has failed, and absolutely do not let her gain that impression.

Send her to the local state school. It'll do her the world of good, and possibly you too...

Which schools were these?

@mumcantrelax

Just share. If any advice, bonus!

DD1 was rejected by 2 super selective schools in North London. I feel disappointed. For me, it's hard to accept. Story was that we didn't prepare at all for the 1st school. She didnt know how to write her name at the assessment. I was naive and I believed what the school told me at the open day which is no need to teach her anything. Then we learned from our mistakes and we prepared a lot for the 2nd school. We finished schofield books and we practised cutting and reading for a couple of months. We were also very lucky that I guessed some of the questions right so she practised them before hand and she was told she's a star at the assessment and I was told she as the only one got this comment in her 5 girls group. However she was rejected again. To guess the reasons that she was rejected by 2 schools, I would say that she's not ready to listen and follow instructions. She is only going to do things that she's interested in. She wanted to go to the 2nd school after open day visit so she studied with me. She likes to explore herself than be told what to do. She isn't chatty to someone she doesn't know so she probably didn't do well in 121 sessions. Having said that as always - it might not be a bad thing for her. I am always worried highly competitive environment at super selective schools could cause mental problems for young girls. Also I am not sure if it's a good choice to stay in one school from the age of 4 all the way up to 18. Well, I don't need to worry now. She didnt get in.
Now the question is what school is good for her. Friends seem to be important for her. Outdoor space is also important as she likes to run. A school culture that encourages individuality and fit in a strong-willed child would be a great match. I have high expectations on academic results but this comes after above.
By the way I am super curious about those girls who were selected by these super selected schools at 4+, how are they doing 20, 30 years later in their lives. I did a quick search. Very few names were noticed. What about the others? Are they happy with their lives?

Our DD was put down for 'super selective' schools at 4, we did this as my wife works for one of those super selective schools and she knew at 4, the DC won't be made to feel pressured during the assessment, these schools are very old hands at this. And the super selective is code for rich environment for above intelligent children, what some call 'hot house' - which at 3 or 4 is a guess.

It's true we would have been gutted if our DD didn't get a place, but gaining a place has all the pressure of how will they keep up if it pans out your DC isn't that academic, a real possibility when trying to assess a DC under 5.

And this is the crux of the matter,
There's always a danger your DC enters these 'hot house' schools and really struggles to keep up and with private tutoring just about manages it, OR they flourish in this bright academic environment and shine, 4 is still too early to really tell. But I'm certain a borderline 7 or 11 with intensive tutoring and fantastic school can enter any selective senior school on a good day. They might be very miserable for the next few years though.

We had 2 super selective preps, 2 non-selective but good rep preps, a few great primary state schools. We lucked out on our super selectives early, so the game was 'won' before it really started. And it's just a game - how your DC does on the day, the competition, blah blah blah.

Keep to your plan B, you can always have a go at 7+, 11+.

I'm an academic, I teach at a uni on a course that requires 3 A's at A-level, and academic success comes in all shapes and sizes. Sure it's great to get them on that conduit of great school that feeds to great University which feeds to great jobs/career, but sometimes we can get to the destination with other roads, or destinations that are actually better for us.

Many parents I know apply to a raft of schools for reception, as they know it's such an IN-EXACT science, so don't blame yourself , just pick yourself up and carry on getting the best education start you can for your DC.

My eldest wouldnt have got in as very difficult child and summer born
But at state primary and 3yrs ahead reading at least and could have passed the grammar sats in y4 with a mark off exceeding.

@OnceuponaRainbow18

Kids that get all 9s would get them at any school, and most unis now favour those who get them from a state school, as they’ve had to work harder for them.

I feel like this is what people who have never been to a really rubbish school tell themselves. No you wouldn't 'get 9s anyway' with poor teaching, constant disruption and a whole raft of socioeconomic pressures

Some kids might be able to study their way through that, but plenty can't

@SunshineOnKeith

I went to a school where 11% of kids got 5 A*-C

I currently work in a school which has been ‘inadequate’ for 4 years and 40% get English and maths.

I’ve been to and worked in tough schools my whole life, the kids who will get all 9s have done and will do.

@OnceuponaRainbow18

Kids that get all 9s would get them at any school, and most unis now favour those who get them from a state school, as they’ve had to work harder for them.

I don't agree. Some kids yes, but there are lots of kids that would be happy getting 6/7 and won't be pushed any further in some schools, especially if the child themselves is not particularly driven, because a 7 is still OK. They are the ones that benefit from the extra push to get the 9s they are capable of.

Op this might feel like the end of the world now but really isn’t. I know a lot of people in the City and a lot of them didn’t go to super selective schools. In fact, one I studied with who did hasn’t done as well in her career as I think she expected. I’m sure plenty of them did go to these schools and are doing well but lots I know went to state schools or calmer indies.

I think it’s a mistake to assume that pressured schools = best results = best career = best life. As the parent of an older child with mh challenges I can tell you the best school for them is the one where they are happiest as this is where they will learn best.

[quote OnceuponaRainbow18]@SunshineOnKeith

I went to a school where 11% of kids got 5 A*-C

I currently work in a school which has been ‘inadequate’ for 4 years and 40% get English and maths.

I’ve been to and worked in tough schools my whole life, the kids who will get all 9s have done and will do.[/quote]
You can't base anecdotal experience against fact!!

Your socioeconomic background and school and family are vital factors in achievement for exams.

The fact you work at a school where SIXTY percent fail to get English and Maths and are already on a difficult path is puzzling- surely you must see wasted potential ??

I don't understand 'the kids who will get all 9s have done and will do.'

I don't see that in university, bright kids who have to drop out because of debt, family or mental crises and no support, all sorts of reasons. Life, and the less family support/money one has, the less resilient one is to these adversities. Students who should get firsts don't always walk out with even a degree.

'Natural ability' doesn't guarantee anything.

I have had two children get through 4+ selection for a sought after London school. Parents arriving in reception year usually feel they have ‘lucked out’ to get a place. However having gone through the ‘system’ I think the selection procedure helps them pick the children that they want to teach, who they think (based on the snapshot they saw in the assessment) would respond well to their environment. That doesn’t mean they have creamed off tomorrow’s high achievers! I think a lot of my children’s development has come from home and efforts we have made with them out of school rather than any special environment or amazing teaching that was on offer.

This was particularly obvious in the last two years of disrupted schooling and lockdowns. My youngest was in reception in the first lockdown and year one for the second period of school closures. The online learning for her age group was pretty rubbish and it was clear the school were prioritising the older age groups. Materials provided for lessons in many cases were obviously prepared for older age groups and were being recycled for the reception/year one when completely unsuitable. This meant parents had to interpret the materials and take over the role of teacher to teach on the relevant subject. I think the school relied heavily on the motivation of parents to do their job for them and knew that parents in the lower year groups wouldnt complain because they were all still very grateful and reassured they were in a selective school.

This school also springs on parents in year 3 any areas where their child needs extra support and leaves it to the parents to address this. With the disruption of the pandemic I can envisage many of my DD’s cohort’s parents getting a shock in late year two early year 3 that their child needs lots of extra work on English/Maths for example. By then the parents are feeling locked in to the school and its getting late to rectify the deficiencies so the parents will end up stressing themselves to work with their children on a range of issues.

If you are motivated to work with your DD and develop her this is all you need to ensure her success wherever she goes. There is no magic bullet by entering a selective school at 4. As many have said there are also opportunities a 7+ and 11+ anyway. I would just continue with what you are doing and see how she develops. Then reconsider your options for 7+ or 11+ but rest assured that your DD’s academic and life success does not depend on entry into one of the highly selective schools. It is just one path!

Is it true that the highly selective schools choose the parent as much as they select the child? Something to think about OP.

@NotTheGrinchAgain

So let me get this straight: You want go find out if, generally, people who were hot-housed educationally from the age of 3 or 4 have wonderful lives? People with a private education often have a higher chance of "succeeding" in life by the standard measures relating to wealth. It's well documented and tiresome to debate.

Worth mentioning you may be on completely the wrong track unless you are planning to be super wealthy. The whole world is going to be be wrecked by climate change by the time your DD grows up. I think you would do better teaching her survival skills. Discuss.

I like this comment. Full stop.

It’s not true that a child will get the same results no matter where they go. Some schools have a value add but the most important factor predicting if a child will have the opportunity to live up to their potential is how involved their parents are and their socio economic background.

3-4 is also a very difficult age to assess long term potential as children develop very unevenly at this stage.

All of that is to say, don’t read too much into her not getting in to a school at 4. You can predict very little about her life or future based on this.

Best of luck finding a school your daughter will love.

I think she is having too much fun. She likes outdoors

It is not possible for a 3 or 4 year old to have too much fun.

I went to a selective private girls school.
1 sibling went to a state grammar
1 went to a middling comprehensive.

We all have exactly the same grad qualifications and roughly equivalent careers / professional status.

You really cannot tell which kids are ‘super smart’ in an academic sense at 3 or 4 years old. They are still developing and at different rates.

Find a happy school for your Dd where she can flourish at her own rate abd within her own strengths.

These assessments are highly weighted against children with any kind of additional need/neurodiversity or just a late developer.

My dd has a very high IQ (as tested by an Ed Psych as part of a full assesment). She got A & A in her A levels (the A was a subject her school didn't offer so she studied independently with just a weekly tutorial with a mentor).

She is also autistic. Aged 4 she would not have passed an assessment of that kind. She is hyper verbal so she'd have done well there but her fine motor skills were and are still appalling and she does not work in groups at all.

A friend's dd was told by specialists that her dd would be nothing more than a vegetable. She had to have a scribe for part of her education and she was in a wheelchair and had difficulty speaking but she passed the assessment for a selective school aged 11 and she just started an academic degree at a RG university.