why cant ds remember stuff he is supposedly doing in numeracy?

[pukkapatch]

okie, i dont want to hear the whines of 'but its christmas.....'
yes, i know its christmas, and they have been celebrating it for the last month. for the last week they have been at home, either fighting, or watching tv, playing ds. and in school, as soon as december starts, they do precious little actual work in school.
so i thought i'd sit down and do some sums with ds2. silly child cant remember how to add. he is in year two. they are doing the times tables in class. i know he doesnt understand the concept, so didnt even touch on them.just htought i'd do some simple addition with him, just to keep him in the loop.
but he is making stupid stupid stupid mistakes, that he didnt make a year ago. cant remember which is the tens, which is the units. ask him to add 2 and eight, and he starts on his fingers, which i dont mind, but does 2+8 rather than 8+2

he knows all this stuff. but doesnt seem to be able to do any of it now.
[frustrated]

so the sum was 2+8 and he started with 2 fingers? That seems perfectly rational - has he been told that to reverse the sum gives the same result, but faster?

Do you write out the table of Hundreds, Tens and Units for him? The kids in year 5 at school still did that as a guide - maybe it will help?

Could you use bits of pasta or something to help make the concept of times tables concrete (ie 2 groups of 4 pasta shapes = 2 X 4 = 8 things) I have seen the TA doing that with our year 2 kids just to help it seem "real".

Have a good Christmas

yes, he knows about reverseing. it was in the number bonds we did last year. and repeated, supposedly this year.
i tried thetimes tables with bits of pasta in the summer, but he simply had no idea what i was on about. so thought i might be rushing it, so left it. that was six months ago, i know they have started in school now, but he says his table havent.
i know th e key to maths is repetition repetition, but we have been doin ghis reading as he was soooo far behind with his reading. but he has caught up now, and the senco wont be seeing him anymore. which is why i thought we'd do some numeracy now as havent done any with him for ages.

So you're really inspiring confidence in him then?(hmm)

So, you want him to be an accountant?

You have ambitions for him, I take it ...

What do you consider to be "actual work"?

Perhaps he would benefit from having the pressure taken off him a bit?

He's only very young.

Look up some free maths sites on the internet.

Play monopoly.

Count beads whilst making a necklace.

Get a times table songs CD for the car.

And try to make your language positive and encouraging.

"silly child" and "stupid, stupid, stupid mistakes" might not be phrases you actually use around him, but he may pick up on your annoyance and frustration.

Confidence is vital to effective learning.

Blimey - bundle of fun in your household then!

Give the child a break fgs!

Pukka - please stop projecting your troubles onto your DC's - he's year 2 FGS now is not the time to make him fear schoolwork

Could someone explain to me, in nice simple word, why it's so much worse to start with 2 and add 8 rather than start with 8 and add 2?

Leave him alone. He is in year 2, it is the school holidays, now is not the time to be ramming down his throat how much you think he is failing. Put it aside, and make an appointment to see his teacher after the holidays. If he cannot do it, it is the teacher's fault, or just one of those things. Perhaps he needs to have the Senco's help again? Either way, getting angry about it will achieve precisely nothing.

I don't intend to 'whine' about Christmas, but whatever religion you are, it is the school holidays and he is 7 at the oldest.

Pukka, they do forget things. I know it is fustrating if you've spent time doing it all before but it is completely normal. I think what happens is they move onto other things and forget the ones they originally learnt so need refreshing, but then they come back quicker. And I know a few year 4 children who are doing number bonds to 10 on fingers and would probably reverse the 2 and 8.

I know it is hard with a child who struggles but it has been a long half term and every child who walked out the school gates at DD's school looked excited but very pale and tired. I really would let him get a complete break from it all, then see how he is after a break. And I guarantee you will feel better about it all if you forget about it for a couple of weeks.

its frustration. thats what is making me upset. he knows how to do this stuff.
the problem with not reversing the 2 and 8 is not looking at the question and thinking of the easy way of doing it.
i have no ambitions for him, other than to be a literate and numerate, useful member of society.

Mu dd is Yr 2 and top group for maths (just) but would probably do 2 + 8 and not 8 + 2. Come to think of it she may reverse it now but a few months ago wouldn't have. They take the first number they hear if it's not written down. I know she trys harder for her teacher and will say to me "we're not doing that at school" in a don't waste my time voice if I try to get her to do anything. I can't understand how she's so clever when I'm so stoopid

But pukka, this is his holiday. His break. his rest, in which he shouldn't be made to do 'schoolwork'. Otherwise he's not getting a proper break, is he? He can start being numerate and conscientious again when he goers back to school, let him be a child for now. he's probably not looking at the question and trying to use an easy way to do it because he doesn't want to do it - and while he can't get away with that at school, why should he be made to do sums in his holiday?

I wrote a reply giving examples of all the silly things I do with my DS but the computer crashed (again) so will quickly post this link some really fun games here

My ds enjoys the Dynamo ones about time etc.

make if fun. I say silly things like "oh I can only see 2 red baubles on the tree. I know there were 10 in the box. Can you help me find the rest? Oh hang on how many do we need to find now?"

It works and ds is doing maths in a fun way or when cooking I will ask him to count the spoonfuls or the paper cases. (12 in a tray we put in four and ask him how many more we need etc)

He does it without a second thought.

Make it fun, turn it into a game. Numeracy isnt all about + and -. Its shapes, time, lenghts, weights, money(bake cakes and then set up a shop to buy them from him), sharing (sweets etc)

Have fun yourself too.

no, we're not doing anything today now. but he has had a long time off, hasnt done any maths work at all for a long time, which is why i sat down yesterday to do some for a short while before we wetn out to see enchanted.
i got extremely frustrated which i know is a terrible attitude to have, because then the child doesnt want to do it.
however, at school, he can and does get away with saying he doesnt know how to do that. he is in the bottom set, and perfectly content to stay there because its too much effort to try to d o teh sums. etc.
he's lazy. and i'm frustrated. bad combination. will give it a rest for a few days, then try to do some reading. helikes that. then will do some maths again.

But why is "8+2" easier than "2+8"? I've got a doctorate in maths, but seem to have missed this somewhere along the way ...

have a look here

or here but if he does struggle its better to do easy stuff first to increase his confidence.

um... "8"+ 9,10

or "2" + 3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10

We always add the smaller number to the bigger number. You are buying two items for £4.20 and £12.50, you add the £4.20 to the £12.50 not the other way round. Obviously when you can do it quickly then you don't really think about it that much.

but def stop the homework today!! do what Mrs Weasley says, make it fun and a normal part of everyday life.

thanks mrsw, ive bookmarked the bitsesize page, we;ll do it together later.

I thought of this thread earlier today and LOL. Santa brought 2 of my DC's a letts maths book each for xmas (in the vague hope that one day they might pick them up and read a page or 2) and they have sat with noses in books for over an hour! DS (aged 10) asked why he didnt get one so I had to raid my box of goodies to find him a similar one to use!

Kids eh Who would have guessed??